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Thread: GA-EP35C-DS3R & (2x2gb) pc12800 DDR3 1600Mhz




  1. #61
    kick's Avatar
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    Default Re: GA-EP35C-DS3R & (2x2gb) pc12800 DDR3 1600Mhz

    I would say "keep on truckin" for your best settings .
    You seem to have the hard bits done.
    The one thing you will notice tho is there wont be an awfull lot of interest on the forum,well at least not from others with dual ddr2/ddr3 p35 chipset boards.
    I dont know when the last bios release for your board was, but I wouldnt expect any more.
    Im not really expecting many/any more for mine.

    There were a few posts from people with dual ddr2/ddr3 p45 chipset boards some time back.

    It might actually be an idea to do a search for those ,there could be some usefull information there.
    A year ago there was plenty of P45 "action"in the forum,maybe 18months ago p45 p43 and P35 and so on.
    Now its predominantly x55,x58 (all ddr3 anyway) and a smattering of P45 ,some amd chip queries and one or 2 posts on 35 31 and older and nvidia chipsets.
    In other words most of the posters/readers concerned with ddr3 will be using integrated on the chip memory controllers,and a lot even with integrated pciex controllers.
    The amazing vanishing northbridge trick!.
    Last edited by kick; 11-27-2010 at 09:20 PM.
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    Default Re: GA-EP35C-DS3R & (2x2gb) pc12800 DDR3 1600Mhz

    Yes I do understand your point , that looks like that I landed with my time machine at the correct place,
    but with wrong timing, so to get help for others .

    Well its not totally my fault

    And even back then ( few months back or even years) , I do not believe that the DDR3 it would be a choice for the many, for the specific motherboard, mostly due the high cost of DDR3, like 2 X 2GB = 500$

    I have a bit of testing ahead, and I will report back , with my final findings. :)
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    Default Re: GA-EP35C-DS3R & (2x2gb) pc12800 DDR3 1600Mhz

    Well on a second thought , I have some homework to share with every one who has some free time .

    Currently I have test the base timing like 7-7-7-21 and I like to check if the motherboard gets "on auto"
    accurately ,and the secondary timings ..
    The values currently are as follow ( auto settings )

    ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)_________4
    Rank Write to READ Delay________ 4
    Write to Precharge Delay_________ 8
    Refresh to ACT Delay______________60
    Read to Precharge Delay__________4
    Static tRead Value_______________6
    Static tRead Phase Adjust________ 0

    The Everest diagnostic reports as correct values :

    700 MHz 7-7-7-21 (CL-RCD-RP-RAS) / 32-77-0-6-11-6-6 (RC-RFC-CR-RRD-WR-WTR-RTP)

    The first chain are known , and so the second is what matters .

    RC = 32 ?
    RFC= 77
    CR = 0 ?
    RRD= 6
    WR = 11 ?
    WTR= 6
    RTP= 6

    I need some help matching the correct values at the correct Bios " slots "

    I have do some home work but I need some help as verification.
    I will mark with color its value , by what I have understand as correct that far..


    .
    Last edited by Kiriakos; 11-27-2010 at 11:35 PM.
    EP35C-DS3R F4 | Q6600 | ProlimaTech Armageddon
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  4. #64
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    Default Re: GA-EP35C-DS3R & (2x2gb) pc12800 DDR3 1600Mhz

    CR = 0, CR = Command Rate and the 0 setting is the default value = 2.
    Check out http://forums.tweaktown.com/gigabyte...t-vs-bios.html and you'll see in the first picture that some memory bios settings vary from the "real" values in Memset and other memory reporting programs.

    You have 24 hours before we give you a test to see if you understand your homework assignment.

    **edit** BTW, the view count in this thread shows that there's a lot of interest in this thread. Right now there are 13 looky-loos (non-members) watching our every move.
    Last edited by profJim; 11-28-2010 at 12:19 AM.
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
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    .


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    Default Re: GA-EP35C-DS3R & (2x2gb) pc12800 DDR3 1600Mhz

    Quote Originally Posted by profJim View Post

    You have 24 hours before we give you a test to see if you understand your homework assignment.
    I have all ready start to through on my engine lots of vitamin C plus chocolate , so to able to handle the pressure :-)
    EP35C-DS3R F4 | Q6600 | ProlimaTech Armageddon
    HYPER-X KHX1600C8D3T1K2 /4GX
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    Default Re: GA-EP35C-DS3R & (2x2gb) pc12800 DDR3 1600Mhz

    Ok after decoding everything

    I had this new picture ...
    The actual numbers are not important to any one else than me.

    I had write in paper the selected settings from the Bios screen (Auto selected),
    and with Green color are the suggested ones by the modules it self ..

    With the first look , the (Auto selected) advanced timings looks to more tight ,
    than the suggested = The suggested are just a bit slower, but still I will try to use them and test .

    Because now I have an amount of 4 Gigabytes of ram , and they need to breath with out stress . ( That's how I am understanding it any way)


    An useful tip about "decoding" the suggested values from Everest.
    are to stuck them like that :

    (RC-RFC-CR-RRD-WR-WTR-RTP)
    32- 77 -0- 6 -11- 6- 6

    And remove the unwanted "stuff"

    (RC-tRFC-CR-tRRD-tWR-tWTR-tRTP)
    32- 77 -0- 6 -11- 6- 6

    And the final look will be like in the picture ...

    Master did I sussed ed ??




    .
    Last edited by Kiriakos; 12-07-2010 at 07:02 AM.
    EP35C-DS3R F4 | Q6600 | ProlimaTech Armageddon
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  7. #67
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    Default Re: GA-EP35C-DS3R & (2x2gb) pc12800 DDR3 1600Mhz

    Ok I have many thoughts in mind right now after testing all those .. like possible decisions to make.
    But before I get to those , its time to post my current template .




    .................................................. ........


    CPU = Model Q6600
    Motherboard = EP35C-DS3R 2,1
    BIOS Version = F5b 17-11-2010
    Ram = HYPER-X KHX1600C8D3T1K2 /4GX http://www.valueram.com/datasheets/K...D3T1K2_4GX.pdf


    Robust Graphics Booster___________ [Auto]
    CPU Clock Ratio ____________ [8]
    CPU Host Clock Control_ [Enabled]
    CPU Host Frequency (MHz)__________ [358]
    PCI Express Frequency (Mhz)_______ [100]
    C.I.A. 2__________________________ [Disabled]
    System Memory Multiplier (SPD)____ [auto]
    DRAM Timing Selectable_ SPD __ [Manual]

    Performance Enhance = [Extreme]

    CAS Latency Time_______________7
    Dram RAS# to CAS# Delay________7
    Dram RAS# Precharge Delay______7
    Precharge Delay (tRAS)_________21

    ACT to ACT Delay (tRRD)_________6
    Rank Write to READ Delay________6
    Write to Precharge Delay________12
    Refresh to ACT Delay____________88
    Read to Precharge Delay_________6
    Static tRead Value______________ [Auto]
    Static tRead Phase Adjust_______ [Auto]


    System Voltage Control____ [Manual]
    DDR2 OverVoltage Control__ [+0.2V]
    PCI-E OverVoltage Control_ [ 0 ]
    FSB OverVoltage Control___ [+0.3V]
    (G)MCH OverVoltage Control [+0.1V]
    CPU Voltage Control_______ [1.32]

    Limit CPUID Max. to 3.....................: [Disabled]
    No-Execute Memory Protect............: [Enabled]
    CPU Enhanced Halt (C1E)................: [Disabled]
    CPU Thermal Monitor 2(TM2) ...........: [Enabled]
    CPU EIST Function.........................: [Disabled]
    Virtualization Technology................: [Disabled]

    Integrated Peripherals
    Legacy USB Storage Detect__________________[Enabled]


    .................................................. ........



    I did tested the above settings , and they worked only , if the system was using the specific given FSB & Cas latency & the secondary memory settings .

    At my first attempt to change those settings I failed to boot .
    Those settings was for @700 = 350 FSB 1400 MHz on memory ,
    and I was clocked to @717 = 358 FSB 1434 MHz

    When all was set correctly , I booted up .. @700 = 350 FSB

    Another question of my got answered too , by inspecting those secondary memory settings .
    The question was , where this numbers of the secondary memory settings in my Bios comes from ?

    Are they what the motherboard selects on auto ?
    Are they forced by the SPD ?
    Are they the current settings, that the motherboard uses ?

    The word NO goes to all the questions .
    With an single exception .
    That is , the default SPD values that Kingston loaded on this modules as default setting that is the 1066 MHz , all the Bios values represent the modules when they will work at just 1066 MHz ( those are rated 1600 MHz )

    Yep I got that too as info , the Bios screen its not a diagnostic tool ...

    Round 2
    By forcing the manual settings of the " secondary memory settings" for the @800 400FSB, the system booted happily at my @717 = 358 FSB 1434 MHz .

    The needed change in the parameters, was small just two numbers.

    tRFC-tRRD-tWR-tWTR-tRTP)
    77 - 6 -11- 6- 6 @700
    88 - 6 - 12 -6 -6 @800

    And now here is the values that I had see stacked on my Bios screen.
    60 - 4 - 8 - 4 - 4 = @533 = 266 FSB = 1066 ( 7-7-7-20 Primary Cas latency )


    I had to admit that Everest its an fine tool , for getting out all those information's.
    But it can not help , if you are hovering in between values of the given FSB settings.

    Round 3
    I was from the first Greek Overclockers , back to 1998 , The Celeron 266@400 Mhz times.
    I followed this path until 2005 , Socket 478 -ASUS -OCZ platinum 2-2-2-5 ,
    and was happy with it even until yesterday, that I got an digital HD camcorder,
    and the socket 478 , its was unable to handle the new task , like to view or editing full HD 1080P video.

    That's how I got here today , to this "new" to me setup, that even at stock ,
    it does everything "speedy" or better described as "super speedy" . :-)

    I do not follow any more the path of the "Top rank overclocker " ,
    that's why all those settings and timings and FSB strips , made my head to blow ,
    until to get them right.

    I have to admit , that this Gigabyte motherboard are fantastic,
    if it boot with the correct settings , its like an armored tank ,
    nothing stops it ..

    But I hate the fact that I overvolt the controllers " MCH and FSB" , so to keep up with the DDR3 speed and bandwidth ..

    I am ready to turn back to default speeds, just for the peace of the mind,
    but before I do that , I will make some real temperature measurements to see ,
    if there is an true heat problem , or everything is just my imagination.
    EP35C-DS3R F4 | Q6600 | ProlimaTech Armageddon
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  8. #68
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    Default Re: GA-EP35C-DS3R & (2x2gb) pc12800 DDR3 1600Mhz

    I just discovered the famous to you , MemSet Tweakers.fr

    I feel a bit like a fool , because i did not use it upfront, its shows those mysterious actual used secondary memory timings , with an easier way to understand than the Everest, but every tool has its own value as software.

    And with the help of Photo-shop , I made this nice picture that shows,
    that the BIOS currently does not use and the most aggressive timings that those modules can handle ( Auto BIOS settings ) .. is the areas at list that we have control as manual settings ..

    Only two settings of the five are set a bit more aggressively than the suggested.

    Check the picture ... I will have to take a big breath , and tomorrow I will get to the bottom of it. :-)


    Last edited by Kiriakos; 12-07-2010 at 07:06 AM.
    EP35C-DS3R F4 | Q6600 | ProlimaTech Armageddon
    HYPER-X KHX1600C8D3T1K2 /4GX
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  9. #69
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    Default Re: GA-EP35C-DS3R & (2x2gb) pc12800 DDR3 1600Mhz

    The exploration keeps on, even if i got an about exploring the advanced memory timings or in the simplified mode " secondary memory timings "

    Yep I got the wrong way , by insisting to see their impact , its not measurable at all.
    And so I got back again , at the fancy Bios screen with all those fancy markings and settings.

    Ok , I cannot hold it as secret any more ... I found the proper settings and boot
    at 400 - 1600 ( later on this details )

    Because we have to explore first other super important factors like
    the voltage system of the EP35C-DS3R and how it works !!

    Lets start with some terminology ...
    1) P35 North bridge = (G) MCH = (G) MCH over voltage BIOS = The hart of the FSB ( 266 - ~)

    2) ICH9R south bridge = 99% ( probably ) FSB OverVoltage Control .

    Those two boys they are responsible to keep everything stable.

    Generally the chip-set voltage supply ( and I speak as electronics engineer ) it must be fixed at the bios defaults , so no matter what memory we use , to boot happily and all . ( I am Not speaking about memory voltage here !! )
    Well , it does not work that way ...

    The chip-set voltage looks to be always something that the user have to set up !!
    And he must to do that no matter what , if he use something bigger than DDR II 533 .
    It supposed ( by my understanding ) that with DDRII 800 - 1066, you are forced to set both (G) MCH + FSB voltage to +2 .

    And If you have something more more speedy, like DDR3 1333+++ all those
    (G) MCH + FSB voltage to +3

    That's how it works ( and its normal technically to work like that )

    Every new owner by looking just the word FSB OverVoltage he feels some fear,
    because its sounds like to be something aggressive , and some times he afraid to use it. ( Fear factor )

    Gigabyte PLEASE rename those stupid settings ... In to DDR to FSB stabilization or in something different and easy to understand !!


    I did some search on the web about the P35 Gigabyte motherboards,
    and found interesting stuff indeed ..

    Review of GA-P35-DQ6
    (G)MCH Northbridge voltage 0.375V above stock
    FSB OverVoltage Control 0.35V above stock
    MCH Powered with 1.37 V

    Review of GA-P35-DS3R
    MCH Voltage goes up to 1.55v at +0.3v. It supplies voltage to your Northbridge chipset to enhance FSB overclocking.
    FSB Voltage, also known as CPU VTT, goes up to 1.55v measured real-time at the +0.3v setting.



    Fact : A note about the board at 2.0v chipset (MCH) voltage: the heatsink cooler on the Northbridge is warm but with a fan over it, it does not get scorching at all, even at 2.0v!
    Also, just to test out the ultra-durable tag-line of the DS3, I ran it for a whole day at 2.0v chipset voltage ( heavily moded ) , 1.8v FSB voltage and 1.4v at Southbridge voltage, and it was still running good, same FSB mileage and stable as well. Overall, this board is just so ready for overclocking, out of the box!

    Ok back to my story again ....
    Well ... after reading all the above , yes the +3 it does not called as over voltage at all about the EP35C-DS3R , that looks like that with the latest BIOS,
    with every setting all the way up it gets no more than 1.25V




    Picture:



    EDIT:

    Later on, I found that there is no actual voltage sensor for this voltages,
    and the Everest reports the theoretical nominal of every chip .

    I bet that I am not the first one , who gets fooled by the software,
    and I am not going to be the last either ..
    Last edited by Kiriakos; 12-07-2010 at 07:08 AM.
    EP35C-DS3R F4 | Q6600 | ProlimaTech Armageddon
    HYPER-X KHX1600C8D3T1K2 /4GX
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    Default Re: GA-EP35C-DS3R & (2x2gb) pc12800 DDR3 1600Mhz

    Ok back to the BLUEboard ...

    I need to thanks again all the regular members that had show so much patience with me, by trying to show the way to me of getting to the 400 strap !!

    The point is , that If I had another motherboard , fresher than this hybrid DDRII+DDR3, I would possibly be helped by their descriptions and terminology.

    People, the 400 Strap on this hybrid DDR3 motherboard called as 1333 strapping = 4.0#

    The Auto selection as divider , represents the called 1066 strapping!!
    And you can select it manually by using 4.0~


    I will not explain what those straps do , they are all ready explained few posts above.
    The mystery was , where they can be found on this motherboard.

    First Picture ... and more will follow ..





    .
    Last edited by Kiriakos; 12-07-2010 at 07:17 AM.
    EP35C-DS3R F4 | Q6600 | ProlimaTech Armageddon
    HYPER-X KHX1600C8D3T1K2 /4GX
    PC3-12800 1600MHz (1066 CL 6-6-6-21)
    ATI HD 5770 Vapor - X| X-Fi music |RAID-1 WD Raptors
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