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Thread: should I upgrade my GA-P35-DS4 to Q9650?




  1. #11
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    Default Re: should I upgrade my GA-P35-DS4 to Q9650?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dewdman42 View Post
    I do music/audio which can definitely need as much CPU as possible. But moving data around the busses is also part of the equation for sure. But definitely we crank a lot of cpu when we're mixing a lot of plugins, etc. Every little bit of CPU helps. Also the newer processor is using SSE4. It also has a larger cache. I'm willing to bet I can see 15-20% improvement in performance, which is well worth the $100-150 or so to get the CPU on ebay, plus i can sell my old one for about $50.

    < snip >
    Your best performance increase will probably be with ram disk software where you move your TEMP folder and your audio input and output folders to the ram disk. Look at the attached screen-shot that shows disk benchmark results for older motherboards like yours. You would probably want to set up a ram disk that has 2GB or 3GB of space. DataRam's RamDisk software is free for setups that use up to 4GB for the ram disk. I had some issues using it with my system when I set it up to save the ram disk as a disk image so that it could automatically be loaded the next time I rebooted. It took several minutes to save the contents when shutting down or starting my system when I used this option.
    RAMDisk - Software - Server Memory Products & Services - Dataram
    It's best to think of the contents in a ram disk as temporary and you might loose the files and folders if your system has a BSOD.

    My P35-DS3L motherboard is a step or two lower than yours and I can easily o/c with my FSB set to 438 - 450MHz.
    I'm currently using FSB = 438MHz so that I can run my 8GB of memory with 4-4-4-10 timings at 876MHz.
    My system had a huge improvement when I upgraded from win2k to win7 and installed an ssd boot drive.

    Your Q6600 can probably be overclocked to 3.40GHz and possibly up to 3.60GHz.
    If you go with one of the higher powered cpu's that you listed I think that the best you will get is a 5 - 10% real world improvement with your audio processing.

    should I upgrade my GA-P35-DS4 to Q9650?-cdm-wd640-4k-aligned-ocz-ssd-vertex-120gb-dataram-ramdisk-results-jpg
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
    P35-DS4 [rev: 2.0] ~ Bios: F14
    4x2GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 1094MHz @5-5-5-15
    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
    Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (boot)
    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
    Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
    HT|Omega Striker 7.1 sound card ~~ Asus VH242H monitor [1920x1080] ~~ Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium ~~ CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD U.P.S
    .


  2. #12
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    Default Re: should I upgrade my GA-P35-DS4 to Q9650?

    Thanks for all the comments guys, I'm definitely taking it all into consideration. ProjJim, thanks for the tip about ramdisk, I will look into that later and look for something similar. This machine is actually running as a hackintosh, so I would need to find an OSX solution and/or do some research to make sure OSX isn't already optimizing that sort of thing, not to mention that if such a thing was doing really low level stuff, then it might not work on a hackintosh anyway.

    A few years back when I first built this machine, I did a lot of OC testing, tried to push it as far as I could and run overnight stability tests with different OC settings. I ended up staying at 3.2ghz because with just a quiet aftermarket heatsink cooler and very quiet fan cooling, I was able to run stable and decent low temps at 3.2ghz. When I got into higher OC speeds, I would have to increase the voltage for stability and the heat would soar...which I wasn't comfortable with, it would ultimately mean more fan noise or some kind of water cooled system which I was not motivated at the time to pursue. For me, I found 3.2ghz to be about the right compromise of overclocking and quiet/cool performance. I also have the memory running at around 450mhz, so yea am getting around 900mhz there.

    As far as overclocking the Q9650, people on the net say it can overclock just fine, some people reported over 4ghz with it. I believe it can multiply up to 11x, but the Extreme version QX9650 has the additional advantage of unlocking the multipliers so that you have more options to run different ratios, etc. I think right now I actually am doing different ratio with the Q6600 in order to boost the ram speed a little more than I am boosting the cpu speed, but its been a few years since I set that up and I can't remember now what I finally settled on. A lot of people say 1:1 is the best way to go anyway, which is essentially what the Q9650 can do. So yes, its theoretical until I actually do it, but I can't see a very compelling reason why I would not be able to OC the Q9650 a bit also into the high 3's at least. The downside might be that I would not be able to boost the ram speed as much as I have done currently with the Q6600, but i'm not sure about that.

    At any rate, I am looking at $100 or so to try to upgrade this hackintosh to the max it can do, or else $2000+ to just go ahead and buy an honest to god Mac Pro, which is on my list, but not quite ready for that. Of course I could go buy a used i7 system of some kind or get just a much more modern PC, but if any of you have spent any time setting up a hackintosh you will understand that once you get it working, you don't want to mess with it too much, its a lot of hassle actually, that's why the next one will be a real mac, which is not cheap. $100 to maximize what I have now is really the easiest solution for the time being without making a large investment, even if its only 10% improvement.
    Last edited by Dewdman42; 05-29-2013 at 01:09 AM.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: should I upgrade my GA-P35-DS4 to Q9650?

    Your welcome.
    A google search using: ram disk macintosh turned up quite a few promising links.
    See if you can create a ram disk and if it offers better performance with your audio processing.
    Hopefully you can buy a used cpu that hasn't been abused and that it will work well.

    Good luck, let us know how everything works out.
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
    P35-DS4 [rev: 2.0] ~ Bios: F14
    4x2GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 1094MHz @5-5-5-15
    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
    Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (boot)
    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
    Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
    HT|Omega Striker 7.1 sound card ~~ Asus VH242H monitor [1920x1080] ~~ Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium ~~ CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD U.P.S
    .


  4. #14
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    Default Re: should I upgrade my GA-P35-DS4 to Q9650?

    I did some researching about ramdisk. It seems most people have decided that in real use its not making any difference, because OSX and apps are already making use of the RAM as much as possible to optimize performance, especially audio apps. OSX already has built in support for it, so its easy to try. I will try to think of ways I might use that, but not really coming up with anything that would not just end up stealing memory away from the OS and apps that are already trying to use ram that way as much as possible. creating a ram disk might end up causing other things to swap more. If I had 16gb or more maybe, but this mobo only supports 8GB max.

    An SSD is becoming more of a possibility. To get a decent sized one is more of an investment then the CPU, but I could use it in my next machine too. The latest ones are advertising over 500MB/sec for both reading and writing... that is practically as good as a ramdisk and doesn't use any ram. In fact I'm thinking about putting one into the superdrive slot on my macbookpro as well.

    Still haven't decided about the CPU. I've seen them new in the box too on ebay, $200 or best offer. It might not be worth the hassle though.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: should I upgrade my GA-P35-DS4 to Q9650?

    You should be able to run a Mac monitoring program that shows how much memory is being used with real time updates.
    My P35 win7 system seldom uses 4GB out of the 8GB that is available but running a resource intensive program might use a lot more memory.
    If most of your available ram is used with your audio processing program, then a ram disk won't help and it could hurt overall performance.
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
    P35-DS4 [rev: 2.0] ~ Bios: F14
    4x2GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 1094MHz @5-5-5-15
    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
    Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (boot)
    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
    Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
    HT|Omega Striker 7.1 sound card ~~ Asus VH242H monitor [1920x1080] ~~ Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium ~~ CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD U.P.S
    .


  6. #16
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    Default Re: should I upgrade my GA-P35-DS4 to Q9650?

    yes I do use a program like that. Audio apps use as much ram as they can...particularly when there are a lot of sample libraries in use. Believe me, it does not take long to use up 8GB.

  7. #17
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    Cool Re: should I upgrade my GA-P35-DS4 to Q9650?

    OK, maybe you should buy this server motherboard that supports up to 512GB of memory.

    Newegg.com - Server Memory, 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM, 32GB, $650 - $738 for each 32GB ECC memory module.
    Last edited by profJim; 05-30-2013 at 04:10 AM.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: should I upgrade my GA-P35-DS4 to Q9650?

    if you want a server system and then a server memory, go to ServerMonkey.com :: New, Used & Refurbished Servers

    I bought a Dell r710 refurb, new it was $8500... used right now goes for $3500, they were $1750 shipped with Dual E5520 and 16GB of ram, No OS and No HD's

    They also have workstations and deal with many manufacturers and their prices are really good... they goofed a little with my orders (2 of them) but fixed everything at no cost to me but a little time.

    I highly recommend them.

    Vin
    Main Rig
    OS = Win8.1
    CPU = i7-980X @ 4.17Ghz 144x29 cooled by custom Loop
    Mem = 12GB 2000Mhz corsair Dominator GT at 2010Mhz @ 9-10-9-27-2T
    MB = Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD5 v1.0 with F6 Bios - Dead Board
    MB = EVGA X58 Classified3 e770
    GPU = 2x Sapphire r9 290x in xfire
    HD = 4x PNY 120GB Raid 0
    Storage = 2TB WD Black
    PSU = EVGA SuperNOVA 1300w
    Case = Cooler Master HAF-X 945

    HTPC / Home Server
    OS = Win7 64Bit running XBMC HTPC Front end with Windows Server 2011 Virtual Machine with 8GB ram assigned for homer server with exchange
    CPU = AMD 1090T
    Mem = 16GB 1600Mhz Kingston RED Limited Edition running at 1600Mhz
    MB = Gigabyte 790FXTA-UD5
    GPU- EVGA GT210
    HD = too many to count, but about 5TB of storage all together including backup
    PSU = Corsair TX750
    Case = Too embarrassed to mention.

  9. #19
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    Lightbulb Re: should I upgrade my GA-P35-DS4 to Q9650?

    Hey Vin,

    I was kidding with my suggestion to use a server system to be able to use almost unlimited amounts of memory.

    Maybe the OP should seriously look into a used server system, with or without dual Xeon processors.

    Personally I think that 128GB of memory should be more than enough for his audio processing.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: should I upgrade my GA-P35-DS4 to Q9650?

    Quote Originally Posted by profJim View Post
    Hey Vin,

    I was kidding with my suggestion to use a server system to be able to use almost unlimited amounts of memory.

    Maybe the OP should seriously look into a used server system, with or without dual Xeon processors.

    Personally I think that 128GB of memory should be more than enough for his audio processing.
    ya, 128GB is a lot of RAM for one system, but I was just offering a place I dealt with that provided a great resource for such a system...

    though a New X79 system with the right CPU/MB would accept up to 128GB of ram at 1600Mhz , I'd personally do that then assign 64-96GB of that RAM as a software RAM drive. Think of those "Disk" speeds in windows 30,000MB+ Read/Write would be nice eh...

    Also hot off the presses, for large SSD's Crutial just broke the bank with a 1TB SSD (M500) priced at $0.60/GB, have a look; Crucial M500: The first 1TB SSD, priced at just $0.60/gig | ExtremeTech

    There are a lot of options out there... I'm thinking my next system to be a crazy beast.... A software RAM disk is on the horizon for me... I just need to figure out when...

    btw, sorry for the slight derail

    Vin
    Main Rig
    OS = Win8.1
    CPU = i7-980X @ 4.17Ghz 144x29 cooled by custom Loop
    Mem = 12GB 2000Mhz corsair Dominator GT at 2010Mhz @ 9-10-9-27-2T
    MB = Gigabyte GA-X58A-UD5 v1.0 with F6 Bios - Dead Board
    MB = EVGA X58 Classified3 e770
    GPU = 2x Sapphire r9 290x in xfire
    HD = 4x PNY 120GB Raid 0
    Storage = 2TB WD Black
    PSU = EVGA SuperNOVA 1300w
    Case = Cooler Master HAF-X 945

    HTPC / Home Server
    OS = Win7 64Bit running XBMC HTPC Front end with Windows Server 2011 Virtual Machine with 8GB ram assigned for homer server with exchange
    CPU = AMD 1090T
    Mem = 16GB 1600Mhz Kingston RED Limited Edition running at 1600Mhz
    MB = Gigabyte 790FXTA-UD5
    GPU- EVGA GT210
    HD = too many to count, but about 5TB of storage all together including backup
    PSU = Corsair TX750
    Case = Too embarrassed to mention.

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