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Thread: FSB tweak or ...




  1. #51
    dizzolve is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: FSB tweak or ...

    Thx Jim

    I have a question that has been simmering for a while now. We've talked a lot about RAM timings and I've learned so much. But why would there be a difference in the timings in my SPD and the timings labeled on the actual module?

    I guess I assumed the SPD is a set of 3 different JEDEC/EPP(whatever those mean) timings that this module will run at. Why wouldn't I see one of those timings profiles on the label?

    CPU-Z reads...

    JEDEC #1
    266Mhz ~4-4-4-12 (16) ~1.8v
    JEDEC #2
    400mhz ~5-5-5-18 (23) ~1.8v
    EPP #1
    533mhz ~5-6-6-16 (22) 2T ~2.1v

    But the label on these modules 5-6-6-18 ~2.1v ....
    FSB tweak  or ...-xms-ram-pix-jpg

  2. #52
    dizzolve is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: FSB tweak or ...

    One more thing Jim,

    Earlier in the thread you mentioned you use a P35-DS3L. Is it ok for the northbridge to be so hot. Also does a discrete NB sensor show up for this board in any monitoring softs? I don't think there is - but if there is, what is it usually called? System?

    It always seemed to have been very warm even when not overclocking so I'm not too concerned. But since you have the same model I wonder if you have any thoughts on that specific chipset and it's properties.

  3. #53
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    Default Re: FSB tweak or ...

    The timings on the label are usually the highest minimum guaranteed timings and maximum rated voltage for a memory module or kit that has been tested by the memory manufacturers on selected motherboard models.

    Your example looks like a typo or SPD programming error that wasn't caught by their QA people.

    Take a look at this combination of three different CM2X2048-8500C5 models and their slightly different SPD's that I found at the end of March.

    I didn't post this in your thread at the time because:

    1. Your thread was only one week old at the time.
    2. I didn't want to confuse anyone with the facts.

    FSB tweak  or ...-corsair-cm2x2048-8500cx-similar-spd-x3-jpg-jpg
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
    P35-DS4 [rev: 2.0] ~ Bios: F14
    4x2GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 1094MHz @5-5-5-15
    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
    Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (boot)
    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
    Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
    HT|Omega Striker 7.1 sound card ~~ Asus VH242H monitor [1920x1080] ~~ Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium ~~ CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD U.P.S
    .


  4. #54
    dizzolve is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: FSB tweak or ...

    lol Thanks



    Memset reads the exact same SPD data as CPU-z So, the label should read 5-6-6-16 ? Or really I'm asking is that the way they usually label their stickers? As one of the JEDED/EPP ext? My experience is pretty much limited to 2 systems and only dealt with RAM at this depth once -this time.

    I just looked for some more of these exact modules on ebay - but the going rate is 2x what I paid for these 2. I'll just keep my eyes open for a deal. At this date there's no sense in investing too much into the 775 based machine.

    Does your DS4 gigabyte board have more OC features than the DS3L? Looks like a nice board. SLI capable. I always thought the copper cooling on that board just looked badass.

  5. #55
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    Default Re: FSB tweak or ...

    Don't worry about your SPD and memory label mismatch, it's a minor inconvenience and won't have a major effect on your overall system/memory performance.
    Forget the price you paid for your memory, that is ancient history, it's all about supply and demand and this eventually happens with all mainstream memory.
    I think that the price of DDR3 has generally increased about 33% in the past year and the DDR3 memory will eventually be overpriced by today's standard prices after DDR4 is the new normal for mainstream systems.

    The P35-DS4 is a somewhat higher end board some additional features and a somewhat better build quality.
    Keep in mind that the (E)P35-DS4 boards do not natively support SLI, but if you download and install the HyperSLI freeware, you can run an SLI setup with x16/x4 bandwidth instead of the "normal" x8/x8 SLI bandwidth for the video cards. There is however a major drawback; when the second video card is installed in the second pci-e slot, all of the pci-e x1 slots are disabled. This means that any usb 3.0 controller cards and/or network lan add-in cards are disabled. In my case this means that I can't use both of my usb four 3.0 add-in ports.

    Your best overall system performance will be with the highest stable FSB and cpu speed. As an example:
    1. 8 x 400MHz = 3.20GHz cpu with 800MHz memory speed (2.0 x 400MHz)
    2. 7 x 450MHz = 3.15GHz cpu with 900MHz memory speed (2.0 x 450MHz)

    In this example, setup #2 should give the best overall performance due to the higher 450MHz FSB (Front SIde Bus).
    The memory setup with #2 will require looser memory settings that will have about the same memory performance as setup #1.

    Most ddr2 setups have the same real world performance with 800 - 850MHz memory speeds with 4-4-4-12 settings as the same setup with 1066 - 1100MHz using 5-5-5-15 settings.

    Don't forget that your new HD 5870 should provide a quantum leap in gaming performance.

    The goal is to get your system stable and with the best cpu/memory overclock.
    Then we can deal with overclocking your HD 5870.
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
    P35-DS4 [rev: 2.0] ~ Bios: F14
    4x2GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 1094MHz @5-5-5-15
    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
    Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (boot)
    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
    Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
    HT|Omega Striker 7.1 sound card ~~ Asus VH242H monitor [1920x1080] ~~ Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium ~~ CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD U.P.S
    .


  6. #56
    dizzolve is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: FSB tweak or ...

    Just a quick update. As you know this overclocking hobby takes real world time. My goals aren't simply to have the fastest computer possible. Sure that's any OCer's goal but I'm also doing this for the experience. This might explain what might otherwise look like illogical or impatient doings. For instance the lack of stress testing and benchmarking. I will do this stuff. But I want to get it dialed in a little closer before I start with that bore. That is the only part of OC I don't like. The time consuming benchmarking and testing. For the really good tests it'll render your computer useless until it's done etc. Preaching to the choir I'm sure. Then again some of you might like it who knows.

    So with the limited time I had this afternoon and after reading your last post, I was curious how greasy my system's FSB is. I scratched out a series of about 10 boots and changes. But first I want to tell you about getting my RAM to it's looser settings.

    I had trouble assigning suggested values to my RAM without system complaining about it. For some reason it wouldn't boot up simply by loosening up those timings to the generic values. I'm not 100% sure the reason but it's limited to only a couple things. 1 - voltage. There is my DDR2 Voltage control and my MCH voltage control. Can you explain the difference. I can guess that ddr2 voltage sends voltage to the modules and mch sends voltage to the controller hub? Is the controller hub also the northbridge? There is also the FSB voltage control as you well know having the same board.

    After many failed boots after simply loosening timings I decided to try something else. First lowering both the ddr2 voltage and the mch voltage might have solved my RAM loosening trial. But I also changed the latencies to an SPD ext. In this BIOS there is the auto option and the manual option under RAM stuff. Even if you go Manual it still displays the optional settings (greyed out though). I set my latency timings to what was displayed as auto in BIOS which as you probably know matches one of my SPD ext. I think this was needed rather than the generic 5-5-5-15. The timings turn out to be 5-5-5-18. Maybe this is unusual -maybe it's just expected when tweaking for OC. Also there were a few other additional timings that were different than we had my RAM. Like Static tRead for example - and the other large number (sometimes displays 68 and sometimes 52 - I had it at 55) Auto displayed 52 so I went with that. Either way ......... it's behind me now and I've got my ram set to -manufacturer intended timings. Now I can I work on the FSB.........

    I read some OC blog sort of articles on OC the E6750 and it seems the max is about 490 FSB. And the clock about 3.8 I think it was. Max stable that is.

    My last FSB push got my fsb up to about 391 before things got hairy. Well today I set out to push it again, with the RAM relaxed and the multiplier relaxed. Just to see what it might want to do. I haven't reached my max yet so this is an update. Then again not having done any tests besides normal menial tasks on the system maybe I have reached or surpassed the max.

    So this is the order I went - each line is another restart

    I started at 391x8
    402x8
    412x8 =failed
    409x8
    412x6
    421x6
    421x7
    433x6
    EDIT: continued raising after initial post (see at end)


    This is where I'm at right now. I figured I'd go ahead and update this post and see if Windows was doing ok - while watching temps etc. course it's only x6 but temps are fine. Windows is fine. I have a few more minutes before I have to go out for a few hours so Ill push this a little more and see if she wants to continue.

    I'm thinking when I have finally come to a stable OC - I will likely enable the stepping for this CPU. That would be more user friendly than actually changing the BIOS if I need performance. Is the stepping C1E I think its called - is it known to interfere with stability or anything? I know it will change it's speed based on what the system needs but for me I can easily ignore or calculate around that. Just curious if it effects things that aren't obvious to me.

    Thanks for everything PJ

    ~dz

    EDIT: continued
    438x6
    441x6
    447x6
    451x6
    I'm stopped here for now and will try to bump mult to 7
    Last edited by dizzolve; 05-02-2014 at 06:55 AM.

  7. #57
    dizzolve is offline Junior Member
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    Default Re: FSB tweak or ...

    So I've stopped here at 451x8. I know this doesn't mean everything is fine - without testing it but I at least feel like I've reached a certain benchmark ~no pun intended~ so for now, I will take stock of all my settings, keep an eyeball on temps etc get it all posted here- until I have time to do a real test - or if it fails - which ever comes first!

    I don't know if going much past here with this cpu is worth the trouble - and like you posted PJim, this is a decent profile to be at for this hardware. If I can determine these cpu stats are stable, I imagine we can work on tightening the RAM (even though little performance will be gained here right?) and when that's stable, we can move to my graphics card. Yes my graphics card is way better than my old one - but it's not the greatest for OC features unfortunately - at least from what I've read. Course, some of those I've read didn't have ProfJim in their corner either though :D

  8. #58
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    Default Re: FSB tweak or ...

    Quote Originally Posted by dizzolve View Post
    Yes my graphics card is way better than my old one - but it's not the greatest for OC features unfortunately - at least from what I've read. Course, some of those I've read didn't have ProfJim in their corner either though :D
    I'm not sure that that's a good thing or not. Subjective you might say...

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