GA ep45 DS3R v drop of 0.074v

[harry23lim]

is this normal? v droop of 0.074 1.450V in bios 1.376 on CpuZ



i have oc'ed my cpu e4300 to 78% oc 3.2ghz stable on occt for 2 hours

i just can't help thinking if is it ok to have a v droop like this?

any resolution? i have tried turning off DES and it change little bit only

[Shauntx]

Re: GA ep45 DS3R v drop of 0.074v

its normal you should look and see others Vdroop

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: GA ep45 DS3R v drop of 0.074v

Vdrop is Different than Vdroop

Vdrop is the Difference in voltage you get from what you set in the BIOS, to what you get in windows at idle.

Vdroop is the Difference in voltage you get from what you set in the BIOS, to what you get at load in widows. Some say this is the difference between Idle (Including Vdrop) and load, but most agree with the above.

Here is intel's Spec's on this
Intel Processor Power Delivery Design Guidelines and Specifications: Vdroop Explained - The Tech Repository Forums

The voltage you need to worry about maxing out is what you see in windows at idle, load is always less. SO the BIOS setting does not matter, what you see in windows with CPU-z is what you are actually putting into your processor. So you can raise your CPU volts more if your temps are still good

You do have EIST and C1E disabled correct?

[Merman]

Re: GA ep45 DS3R v drop of 0.074v

The voltage you need to worry about maxing out is what you see in windows at idle, load is always less. SO the BIOS setting does not matter, what you see in windows with CPU-z is what you are actually putting into your processor. So you can raise your CPU volts more if your temps are still good

The voltage in the BIOS is the maximum you want the voltage to spike going from load to no load.

As the chart presented by harry23lim shows, the voltage dips when the processor is under load and spikes back up when not under load. What is set in Bios is the maximum spike you want.

The CPU VID setting establishes the absolute maximum allowable processor supply voltage experienced during transient conditions and is not the target idle voltage.

AnandTech: Overclocking Intel's New 45nm QX9650: The Rules Have Changed

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: GA ep45 DS3R v drop of 0.074v

The voltage in the BIOS is the maximum you want the voltage to spike going from load to no load.

As the chart presented by harry23lim shows, the voltage dips when the processor is under load and spikes back up when not under load. What is set in Bios is the maximum spike you want.

Yes, and no. What you set in the BIOS is not what you get in windows or ever with vdrop in action. Which in most boards it always is, some more so then others.

What is set in the BIOS is his board is never reached due to vdrop, so he is fine with more as long as he keeps his idle (Which is the max the CPU ever gets) under his ideal voltage range

VID was not mentioned as he is overclocking, and trying to go higher anyway. So VID was not a factor, but that is correct. That article was also written with 45nm CPU's in mind.

The 65nm CPU's can take far more then the 45nm ones, so everyone kind of has agreed on, but Anandtech is the ONLY 45nm CPU death I have seen, and that was with Vtt killing the CPU and not actual core voltage

http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=428

It looks as if P35 was great, at least my DS4 was, in having 0.0 Vdroop and very small vdrop with or without loadline control. Seems gigabyte has went backwards when it comes to P45 though in removing the loadline control, and having such a large vdrop and vdroop

All boards are differen though, as you know. And all chips can take FAR more the the Max recommended, Which all overclockers know as well. It is all up to the user and what they think is safe for them when looking at their temps and board/CU reactions.

[harry23lim]

Re: GA ep45 DS3R v drop of 0.074v

@lsd

i have eist and Cie enabled.. and i already tried to disable it.. it change a bit but not that big..

can you tell me what will be the effect of having a vdroop? can this limit my oc'ing or can this harm my hardware device?

[harry23lim]

Re: GA ep45 DS3R v drop of 0.074v

Vdrop is Different than Vdroop

Vdrop is the Difference in voltage you get from what you set in the BIOS, to what you get in windows at idle.

Vdrop is the Difference in voltage you get from what you set in the BIOS, to what you get at load in widows. Some say this is the difference between Idle (Including Vdrop) and load, but most agree with the above.

Here is intel's Spec's on this
Intel Processor Power Delivery Design Guidelines and Specifications: Vdroop Explained - The Tech Repository Forums

The voltage you need to worry about maxing out is what you see in windows at idle, load is always less. SO the BIOS setting does not matter, what you see in windows with CPU-z is what you are actually putting into your processor. So you can raise your CPU volts more if your temps are still good

You do have EIST and C1E disabled correct?

is this correct Lsd? you said both v drop is the difference in what you set in the bios and what you see in the Cpu-Z, what about V droop?

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: GA ep45 DS3R v drop of 0.074v

Shzt harry23slim! Yeah, sorry I will edit. I meant vdrop and vdroop in their respective places! Thanks

Vdrop/vdroop will affect a overclock in a way. That being you will just need to look at what you are getting voltage-wise at load and the differences in the BIOS and adjust your settings accordingly is all.

Like lets say this for example >>>

You REALLY want 1.40V at load. You have set 1.45v in the BIOS, but with vdroop at load you are only getting 1.35V.

Then all you will need to do is adjust accordingly, so you would set 1.50 in the BIOS to get 1.40 at load

If you are overclocking then you do want to have EIST, and C1E disabled or your voltages will not be stable when the board undercclocks your system

[Merman]

Re: GA ep45 DS3R v drop of 0.074v

Yes, and no. What you set in the BIOS is not what you get in windows or ever with vdrop in action. Which in most boards it always is, some more so then others.

What is set in the BIOS is his board is never reached due to vdrop, so he is fine with more as long as he keeps his idle (Which is the max the CPU ever gets) under his ideal voltage range

If you re-read what I wrote, I wrote what the VID setting is in the BIOS and the max voltage the processor will get. As we know it is not what is seen in Windows or as V-offset. It is the maximum voltage spike the CPU will get when coming off a load.

VID was not mentioned as he is overclocking, and trying to go higher anyway. So VID was not a factor, but that is correct. That article was also written with 45nm CPU's in mind.

Re-read the quote and the article. Vid in the Bios is the reason and amount of V-offset and V-droop that are implemented so the processor doesn't get more voltage than set in the BIOS.

The 65nm CPU's can take far more then the 45nm ones, so everyone kind of has agreed on, but Anandtech is the ONLY 45nm CPU death I have seen, and that was with Vtt killing the CPU and not actual core voltage
AnandTech

So what that the 65nm CPUs take more voltage. The principles are the same.

Nowhere was I talking about killing CPUs with too much voltage. But you cannot deny that giving the processor more voltage than recommended will kill it faster and if too much voltage is given it will kill the processor. Why do you think they have voltage limits???

Now if you think that excessive Vtt voltage will kill a processor, which is part of the FSB circuit, then high VID voltage should kill the CPU even faster.

It looks as if P35 was great, at least my DS4 was, in having 0.0 Vdroop and very small vdrop with or without loadline control. Seems gigabyte has went backwards when it comes to P45 though in removing the loadline control, and having such a large vdrop and vdroop

Your P-35 board has zero V-droop??? Your board may be out of spec. V-droop is part of the Intel Power Delivery Specification.

All boards are differen though, as you know. And all chips can take FAR more the the Max recommended, Which all overclockers know as well. It is all up to the user and what they think is safe for them when looking at their temps and board/CU reactions.

All boards are different because exact spec is not achievable. "Allowable tolerances are a necessity in any engineering discipline."

As for chips can take far more voltage than recommended, this is true too as Intel is conservative. Take the E8400 for instance. The box recommends a max of 1.225 volts, which by the way is what the standard vid for the Gigabyte bios for this chip. Intel's datasheet states 1.45 volts as the maxium for the 8000 and 7000 chips.

Would you recommend 1.5 or 1.6 voltage for an 8000 or 7000 chip even if water cooled with temps below the throttling point for 24/7 use???

2.6.1 Absolute Maximum and Minimum Ratings

Table 3 specifies absolute maximum and minimum ratings only and lie outside the functional limits of the processor. Within functional operation limits, functionality and long-term reliability can be expected.

At conditions outside functional operation condition limits, but within absolute maximum and minimum ratings, neither functionality nor long-term reliability can be expected. If a device is returned to conditions within functional operation limits after having been subjected to conditions outside these limits, but within the absolute maximum and minimum ratings, the device may be functional, but with its lifetime degraded depending on exposure to conditions exceeding the functional operation condition limits.

At conditions exceeding absolute maximum and minimum ratings, neither functionality nor long-term reliability can be expected. Moreover, if a device is subjected to these conditions for any length of time then, when returned to conditions within the functional operating condition limits, it will either not function, or its reliability will be severely degraded.
Although the processor contains protective circuitry to resist damage from static electric discharge, precautions should always be taken to avoid high static voltages or electric fields.

The table doesn't format well:

http://download.intel.com/design/pro...hts/318732.pdf

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: GA ep45 DS3R v drop of 0.074v

Well I considered a .02 Vdroop as 0 Vdroop. It is only at one voltage setting, all other voltages ranges differ in amounts of drop/droop on all boards/chips

Ya, I only mentioned Vtt and that death because you linked to there reminded me. I really think Vtt will kill quicker then core voltage because of that article, and I have seen plenty of people on dice using 1.7+ Vcore, but keeping the Vtt down as much as possible

My box says 1.25, but I guess it is not a exact E8400 anyway.

I was trying to keep this in laymans term's really is why I said what I said and how I said it.

The whole real deal is most 98% of users will buy a new chip anyway far before it would die from being overclocked 24/7, within a acceptable range of course.

But yes, I do know what you mean and get it all myself, but just try to explain things in a generic way so that anyone can get something from it later whether they speak my language or not. Keep it simple at times is best when dealing with many languages as I have often found here more then you would think

[Merman]

Re: GA ep45 DS3R v drop of 0.074v

Well I considered a .02 Vdroop as 0 Vdroop. It is only at one voltage setting, all other voltages ranges differ in amounts of drop/droop on all boards/chips

Of course because V-droop varies per load or amps applied and tolerances.

[harry23lim]

Re: GA ep45 DS3R v drop of 0.074v

@LSD

i salute to you :) yeah a explain things in a simple way because not everyone could speak 100% english like me..i am a filipino haha

[Lsdmeasap]

Re: GA ep45 DS3R v drop of 0.074v

Well, some of what merman discusses sometimes is beyond me at 5 AM as well!

I had no idea that you were filipino harry23slim, do you speak English or use a translator?

Merman, you are From the US right? I do think so as fluent as you speak, and in depth thoughts you often discuss