How to Ensure SATA III TRIM on X58A-UD3R, Intel 510 6GB/s SSD, Marvell 9128?

[dbguy]

On GA-X58A-UD3R ver. 1.0, BIOS F6 (G-SATA port 6 enabled, AHCI selected, SATA III firmware "AUTO"), Windows 7 Ultimate with SP1, single Intel 510 120GB 6GB/s SSD on G-SATA port 6, Marvell 88SE9128 controller chip on motherboard, Intel RST 10.5.0.1015 (iaStor.sys) SATA driver installed, Intel SSD Toolbox 2.0.2 installed and working, no Marvell *anything* installed (not console driver, not MRU/MSU RAID utility): What is the best way to ensure -- absolutely -- that TRIM commands are in fact passed to the single SSD? If the setup described above accomplishes that result, please be so kind as to confirm that. Thank you very much for your help and advice on this.

[flyfisher]

Re: How to Ensure SATA III TRIM on X58A-UD3R, Intel 510 6GB/s SSD, Marvell 9128?

Open a command prompt and type "fsutil behavior query disabledeletenotify" (without the quotes). If it returns "DisableDeleteNotify = 1" then trim is disabled. If it returns "DisableDeleteNotify = 0" then trim is enabled.

[profJim]

Re: How to Ensure SATA III TRIM on X58A-UD3R, Intel 510 6GB/s SSD, Marvell 9128?

Adding to flyfisher's suggestion, you can run a batch file from the command prompt:

CHKTRIM.bat

fsutil behavior query disabledeletenotify
@echo ...TRIM is  ENABLED = 0 (YIPPEE!!!)
@echo ...TRIM is disabled = 1 (oh poop)
pause

[dbguy]

Re: How to Ensure SATA III TRIM on X58A-UD3R, Intel 510 6GB/s SSD, Marvell 9128?

Thank you for your replies, but the issue is not whether the OS (Windows 7) is issuing the TRIM command (which it is) -- that is what fsutil indicates, as I understand it. The issue is whether the TRIM command from the OS is actually being passed to the SSD via the Marvell 9128 controller, where the SATA driver is the Intel RST driver. I would very much appreciate hearing what Lsdmeasap might have to say on this issue. Thanks and best regards.

[ABalthazor]

Re: How to Ensure SATA III TRIM on X58A-UD3R, Intel 510 6GB/s SSD, Marvell 9128?

Does your toolbox allow you to run on that Intel 510 SSD when you have it plugged into the onboard Marvell controller?

I don't believe the Intel RST driver interacts with the Marvell controller, just the ICH10. If you haven't installed specific Marvell drivers for that 9128 then what drivers are appearing in Device Manager for that extra controller? Microsoft?

[Acebmxer]

Re: How to Ensure SATA III TRIM on X58A-UD3R, Intel 510 6GB/s SSD, Marvell 9128?

Intels RST driver is only for the intell controller sata ports. Marvell 9128 controller has its own driver. Windows has issues with their driver installed. Unless this has changed with recent updates. It is suggested just install the Marvell console, not the driver. This will remove the "!" next to the marvell controller in windows device manager.

[dbguy]

Re: How to Ensure SATA III TRIM on X58A-UD3R, Intel 510 6GB/s SSD, Marvell 9128?

Does your toolbox allow you to run on that Intel 510 SSD when you have it plugged into the onboard Marvell controller?

I don't believe the Intel RST driver interacts with the Marvell controller, just the ICH10. If you haven't installed specific Marvell drivers for that 9128 then what drivers are appearing in Device Manager for that extra controller? Microsoft?

Thank you for your response. For your information, the Intel SSD Toolbox 2.0.2 runs very nicely: SSD Optimizer, SMART attributes, etc.
The 510 SSD itself runs very nicely (e.g., sequential 360 read, 200 write), albeit at less than top rated speed. If no Marvell drivers are installed, then it is not using a Marvell driver; that leaves Intel RST and Microsoft, pretty much a tossup.
The issue that I asked about, however, remains: Is the TRIM command reaching the SSD if the SSD if it is plugged into a port entrusted to the Marvell 9128 chip? I would welcome a response to the question posed.

[dbguy]

Re: How to Ensure SATA III TRIM on X58A-UD3R, Intel 510 6GB/s SSD, Marvell 9128?

Intels RST driver is only for the intell controller sata ports. Marvell 9128 controller has its own driver. Windows has issues with their driver installed. Unless this has changed with recent updates. It is suggested just install the Marvell console, not the driver. This will remove the "!" next to the marvell controller in windows device manager.

Thank your for your reply and suggestion. You are right about the glories of the Marvell 9128 and its driver; the Crucial SSD forums (in particular those dealing with the C300, a 6GB/s SSD) contain a wealth of ultimately inconclusive posts about Marvell 9128 and TRIM, although posters are generally united in disliking both the chip and its drivers.
At this point the 510 SSD works nicely (e.g., sequential 360 read, 200 write) on somebody's driver. The Intel SSD Toolbox 2.0.2 works nicely: SSD Optimizer, SMART attributes, etc. I am not panicked about a yellow bang in the Windows Device Manager, and I am not inclined to install Marvell *anything* unless it is demonstrated to be necessary to cause the TRIM command issued by the OS to arrive safely at the SSD and there be executed.
So the issue I raised, the question I asked, remains: How to guarantee/ensure, given a Marvel 9128 chip, that the TRIM command issued by the OS makes it to the SSD on the "Powered by Marvell" G-SATA port 6, for execution. I would appreciate any thoughts you might have on this issue. Thank you for your interest and response.

[ABalthazor]

Re: How to Ensure SATA III TRIM on X58A-UD3R, Intel 510 6GB/s SSD, Marvell 9128?

Device manager will tell you which driver you are using, it isn't a tossup. And it is likely a Microsoft default driver, since Intel's drivers won't interact with the Marvell controller.

Other than doing your own testing on a known TRIM-enabled set of ports like the Intel SATA 6G ones on the P67 chipset and comparing them to the Marvell SATA 6G speeds, or finding such tests on the net, I'm not sure how you'd find this out.

I asked about your 510 on the marvell ports and the SSD toolbox because the SSD toolbox will not perform any functions on my 510 when connected to the Marvell 9182 chip on my board (a more recent version of the one on your board.) It sees the drive, but won't do anything with it, unless I connect it to my ICH10 SATA ports.

[ABalthazor]

Re: How to Ensure SATA III TRIM on X58A-UD3R, Intel 510 6GB/s SSD, Marvell 9128?

I think I found out why the 510 may be able to be manipulated when connected to your Marvell ports; it appears if you use the default MS AHCI driver, instead of installing the Marvell, then the Intel Toolbox will still function with the drive. The Marvell driver prevents this from happening. Of course the question remains whether or not you actually need the Toolbox at all, and the related OP's question about TRIM is related to that.

[dbguy]

Re: How to Ensure SATA III TRIM on X58A-UD3R, Intel 510 6GB/s SSD, Marvell 9128?

I think I found out why the 510 may be able to be manipulated when connected to your Marvell ports; it appears if you use the default MS AHCI driver, instead of installing the Marvell, then the Intel Toolbox will still function with the drive. The Marvell driver prevents this from happening. Of course the question remains whether or not you actually need the Toolbox at all, and the related OP's question about TRIM is related to that.

Thank you for your response. I have noticed that the AS SSD benchmark tool shows the driver in the upper left corner, msahci. I discovered that installing the Marvell console driver prevents the Intel SSD Toolbox from operating, and the AS SSD benchmark tool shows something like "mv91xx" as the driver (the Marvell driver seems to result in a marginal improvement in 4K read/write speeds on the Intel 510 SSD, but same sequential speeds).

I have uninstalled the Marvell console driver from Windows 7 "Add/remove programs", which reinstates the msahci driver and allows the Intel SSD Toolbox to operate again -- which in turn provides a means to run TRIM manually (the "Intel SSD Optimizer"). This to me is vital, given the apparent inability of the Marvell 9128 to pass TRIM commands to a 6GB/s SSD (curious situation: no one seems to know or be prepared to say, including Crucial and Gigabyte).

FYI, a new round of Gigabyte X58A BIOS made their appearance as final in the last couple days. I have not seen any forum postings indicating or suggesting that the new BIOS have any effect on the TRIM (or non-TRIM) issue.

[dbguy]

Re: How to Ensure SATA III TRIM on X58A-UD3R, Intel 510 6GB/s SSD, Marvell 9128?

Device manager will tell you which driver you are using, it isn't a tossup. And it is likely a Microsoft default driver, since Intel's drivers won't interact with the Marvell controller.

Other than doing your own testing on a known TRIM-enabled set of ports like the Intel SATA 6G ones on the P67 chipset and comparing them to the Marvell SATA 6G speeds, or finding such tests on the net, I'm not sure how you'd find this out.

I asked about your 510 on the marvell ports and the SSD toolbox because the SSD toolbox will not perform any functions on my 510 when connected to the Marvell 9182 chip on my board (a more recent version of the one on your board.) It sees the drive, but won't do anything with it, unless I connect it to my ICH10 SATA ports.

Short answer on how one would find out: Someone at Gigabyte, or with close access to Gigabyte, would go on record as saying, one way or the other, that the Marvell 9128 controller does or does not pass TRIM commands to a SATA III SSD (and, if the answer is yes, would provide a concise set of "Do A, then do B, then do C" steps to follow). That no one in a position of knowledge or access to knowledge -- not manufacturer, not forum -- is able or prepared to say anything, is probably the most telling fact. My conclusion is that the Marvell 9128 controller in fact and actuality does *not* pass TRIM commands to a 6GB/s SSD, regardless of driver used, and that one who owns an Intel 6GB/s SSD is advised to preserve, and not jeopardize, his ability to run TRIM manually using the Intel SSD Toolkit.

[ABalthazor]

Re: How to Ensure SATA III TRIM on X58A-UD3R, Intel 510 6GB/s SSD, Marvell 9128?

It would certainly be nice to know one way or another. I'm sure somewhere someone has done some tests by putting a bunch of data on the drives, deleting it using the different controllers / drivers, and checking performance to establish whether or not trim is working. I suppose I could do that when I have some time.

I wonder if running the SSD optimizer using the MS AHCI driver on the Marvell controller actually does anything? I mean, if the TRIM commands aren't being passed by the controller, then you may just be able to run the tool without accomplishing anything. Sounds like this aspect needs testing also. Just because the driver and toolbox 'think' they are sending TRIM commands doesn't mean the drive is receiving those commands.

[dbguy]

Re: How to Ensure SATA III TRIM on X58A-UD3R, Intel 510 6GB/s SSD, Marvell 9128?

It would certainly be nice to know one way or another. I'm sure somewhere someone has done some tests by putting a bunch of data on the drives, deleting it using the different controllers / drivers, and checking performance to establish whether or not trim is working. I suppose I could do that when I have some time.

I wonder if running the SSD optimizer using the MS AHCI driver on the Marvell controller actually does anything? I mean, if the TRIM commands aren't being passed by the controller, then you may just be able to run the tool without accomplishing anything. Sounds like this aspect needs testing also. Just because the driver and toolbox 'think' they are sending TRIM commands doesn't mean the drive is receiving those commands.

On running the Intel SSD Optimizer in the Intel SSD Toolkit 2.0.2: Your point is well taken, disconcerting as it may be. To even get the Toolkit running again, after uninstalling the Marvell console driver, I had to uninstall and reinstall the Toolkit. If the Toolkit's TRIM commands cannot reach the SSD, even with the latest BIOS that updates the 9128 firmware and even with the SATA III Firmware in BIOS set to "Bypass", then that suggests moving the SSD to a SATA II port and forgoing SATA III sequential speeds (the strong point of the Intel 510, which lags behind, e.g., the Intel G2 160GB drives in terms of 4K performance).

[ABalthazor]

Re: How to Ensure SATA III TRIM on X58A-UD3R, Intel 510 6GB/s SSD, Marvell 9128?

Shouldn't there already be an easy 'test to see if trim is working' tool? Something that will write a file, record the sectors/cells or whatever where the data is located, issue a delete command for the file, and check to see if the cells have been cleared or not?

Some users have suggested that the drives may have some sort of garbage collection that will periodically clean up unused cells, but I haven't seen if this is specifically done with the 510 series.