Please report all spam threads, posts and suspicious members. We receive spam notifications and will take immediate action!
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12
Results 11 to 20 of 20

Thread: Asynchronous vs. Synchronous NAND Flash SSD Performance




  1. #11
    parsec's Avatar
    parsec is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Third stone from the sun
    Posts
    4,824

    Default Re: Asynchronous vs. Synchronous NAND Flash SSD Performance

    I can't believe Monster is using anything but pure vanilla SF firmware, so nothing amazing in the performance department.

    HA! Indeed, I imagine they well be H D Ds!

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Secret Bunker
    Posts
    140

    Default Re: Asynchronous vs. Synchronous NAND Flash SSD Performance

    I have the Daytona and its been here since before the launch. They haven't sent me firmware 5.0.3 or higher yet for TRIM to work so it's just sitting in a box. I've emailed their people and they aren't in too big of a hurry to send the firmware. The drive is kind of cool, I think it uses flash from Toshiba. I haven't looked at it in several months but the flash isn't your run of the mill IMFT or Toshiba Toggle. They sent the drive but don't want to aid me in getting the review out so it sits.

  3. #13
    profJim's Avatar
    profJim is online now Chief Munchkin + moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Tacoma, WA. [USA]
    Posts
    7,811

    Default Re: Asynchronous vs. Synchronous NAND Flash SSD Performance

    From the Monster website (and Newegg), the Daytona uses asynchronous NAND.
    The Le Mans model has the "good stuff".

    From the Monster website link in post #10:
    Flash Memory
    • Daytona = SATA III with NCQASYNC
    • Le Mans = Toshiba Toggle 2
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
    P35-DS4 [rev: 2.0] ~ Bios: F14
    4x2GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 1094MHz @5-5-5-15
    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
    Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (boot)
    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
    Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
    HT|Omega Striker 7.1 sound card ~~ Asus VH242H monitor [1920x1080] ~~ Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium ~~ CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD U.P.S
    .


  4. #14
    nleksan's Avatar
    nleksan is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Asynchronous vs. Synchronous NAND Flash SSD Performance

    I wonder how it is that Asynchronous NAND based SSD's can even be competitive anymore, as the prices for Synchronous/Toggle-NAND have dropped so much that it's not unusual to see 256GB Synch/Toggle SSD's for ~$150-175 on sale (in fact, there is almost ALWAYS at least one at that price), while the Asynchronous NAND drives don't really drop much lower than that (if at all)....?

    I mean, here are some recent numbers for some popular drives over the past month...
    *Newegg + Amazon used for prices/etc

    SAMSUNG 830 256GB
    NAND: Toggle
    Low Price: $157.98
    High Price: $214.95

    VERTEX 4 256GB
    NAND: Synch
    Low Price: $161.25
    High Price: $229.98

    VERTEX 3 MaxIOPS 240GB
    NAND: Toggle
    Low Price: $159.98
    High Price: $259.90

    CORSAIR FORCE GS 240GB
    NAND: Synch
    Low Price: $179.45
    High Price: $240.95

    AGILITY 4 256GB
    NAND: Asynch
    Low Price: $137.29
    High Price: $213.48

    INTEL 330 180GB
    NAND: Asynch(?)
    Low Price: $89.95
    High Price: $149.50

    INTEL 520 240GB
    NAND: Synch
    Low Price: $184.18
    High Price: $259.98

    and I could go on...
    COGITO ERGO SWITCH
    - i7 3930K - Rampage IV Extreme - 16GB DDR3-2666C10 - 3xEVGA Titan X SLI - Samsung 830 256GB - CaseLabs TH10 White (120mm Top/Pedestal) -
    - EVGA P2-1500W - - LG Slot Load BD Burner - AC Aquaero 6 Full - 8x Seagate 900GB 15krpm 2.5"E-HDD's in RAID0/4x DC S3700 800GB RAID0/4grps*4 WD RE 4TB RAID10/2 512GB SM951/9x Intel X25-E 160GB OP'ed 50% in RAID0 for scratch - Areca 1883ix-8GB-24i4e HW RAID Card WC'ed -
    - 2x Nemesis GTX 560 & 2x GTX 480 (Push-Pull) - 2x Monsta 560/1x UT60 420 (Koolance 2600rpm Push-Pull) - Apogee HD White - HK GPU Blocks - HK Backplates - MIPS R4E MB Block - MCP35X2 - 2x BP Z-Multi 400mL Clear/White Res's -
    - BP DIMM-Freezer x2 4-DIMM Blocks - Phantek SP140 Case Fans - BP/Monsoon Comp/Rotary/Misc Fittings - Rigid Tubing -
    - LG 34UM97 3440x1440 - LG 60" OLED 4K - Creative X-Fi Ti HD - Pioneer Elite SC-89 - Grado PS1000/GS1000/RS1+2's/12+ AKG's/etc - Benchmark DAC2 - Sonus Faber towers (FR/C/FL/SL/SR) - McIntosh 5x250W Amp -

  5. #15
    profJim's Avatar
    profJim is online now Chief Munchkin + moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Tacoma, WA. [USA]
    Posts
    7,811

    Lightbulb Re: Asynchronous vs. Synchronous NAND Flash SSD Performance

    I wonder how it is that Asynchronous NAND based SSD's can even be competitive anymore, as the prices for Synchronous/Toggle-NAND have dropped so much that it's not unusual to see 256GB Synch/Toggle SSD's for ~$150-175 on sale ....
    the state or fact of being ignorant:
    lack of knowledge, learning, information, education, or awareness

    Why buy an asynchronous ssd?
    1. ignorance
    2. price
    3. ignorance
    4. better value?
    5. ignorance
    6. manufacturers with similar model names that didn't explicitly state which models used asynchronous or synchronous NAND flash

    Before the recent ssd price drops, buyers could save about $20 on some models when they bought an asynchronous ssd. Claimed ATTO sequential read and write scores were virtually as good as the slightly more expensive synchronous drives. They didn't know how important 4KB (small file) performance is in real world use. Until July 2011, none of the ssd reviews pointed out the importance of real world "steady state" (aka data fill) testing. Chris Ramsayer (TweakTown ssd reviewer) was the first one to discuss the importance of data fill testing; HardOCP picked up on this about one month after Chris first published his findings in an ssd web review.

    There have been a fair number of forum threads with current generation systems where the OP wanted help with their under performing sata3 ssd's. In most cases, the problem was that they had an asynchronous ssd for their operating system. They couldn't understand why there were performance issues with their new asynchronous drives when they had seen ATTO benchmark scores like this one from the Corsair Force Series 3 180GB Solid State Drive Review - Benchmarks - Test System Setup and ATTO Baseline Performance :: TweakTown USA Edition, page 4:



    I upgraded each of my older sata2 systems with 60GB OCZ Agility2 ssd's about 3 years ago. They have both been trouble-free, but recently when my P35 system's ssd had only 10GB of free space remaining, the system would occasionally lag for several seconds. I decided to upgrade each system's ssd with Samsung 830 128GB ssd's on October 10th 2012, when I could buy them for $80 each. This was two weeks before the Samsung 840 release date. I set up each ssd with a 100GB o/s partition and left 20GB unformatted for the over-provisioned area (approximately 16.7%). I recently copied 25GB of folders to my boot drive so that the total free space in the o/s partition was only 20GB. I repeated my original benchmark tests and used my system for one week. There was no difference in everyday use and with benchmark scores.

    I'm currently lusting after the Samsung 840 Pro 256GB ssd, but it will have to wait until I upgrade to an overclocked Haswell system in the summer or early fall in 2013. If the world really does come to an end on December 21st 2012, I won't be upgrading my systems.
    Last edited by profJim; 12-19-2012 at 04:39 PM. Reason: added item #6
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
    P35-DS4 [rev: 2.0] ~ Bios: F14
    4x2GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 1094MHz @5-5-5-15
    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
    Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (boot)
    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
    Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
    HT|Omega Striker 7.1 sound card ~~ Asus VH242H monitor [1920x1080] ~~ Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium ~~ CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD U.P.S
    .


  6. #16
    parsec's Avatar
    parsec is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Third stone from the sun
    Posts
    4,824

    Default Re: Asynchronous vs. Synchronous NAND Flash SSD Performance

    Well, it is about 1:45AM CST, 12/22/2012 and all is well. Yet another "impending" apocalypse that fizzled, how many have I lived through in my lifetime?

    Regarding this:

    INTEL 330 180GB
    NAND: Asynch(?)
    Low Price: $89.95
    High Price: $149.50


    There is no chance the Intel 330 uses asynchronous NAND. The last time Intel used async NAND was in their G2 SSDs, like the X-25 M series, which used ONFI 1.0 Async NAND chips. They were introduced in July, 2009, the 80GB version cost ~$225.

    I'm surprised that Async NAND is still manufactured, given the current ONFI standard of 2.0, and 3.0 will be seen in 2013. Perhaps it is used for other purposes. Any SSD manufacture using Async NAND today may be using NOS (New Old Stock) NAND, which I would think would be cheap. OTOH, prices of the older 34nm NAND chips was much higher than the newer 2Xnm chips, so you can find seemingly strange pricing on older SSDs, like the Intel 510, that currently is priced higher than Intel's 520 SSD, of the same capacity. Not many 510's left, and they are a discontinued product.

  7. #17
    nleksan's Avatar
    nleksan is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Ohio
    Posts
    10

    Default Re: Asynchronous vs. Synchronous NAND Flash SSD Performance

    Quote Originally Posted by parsec View Post
    Well, it is about 1:45AM CST, 12/22/2012 and all is well. Yet another "impending" apocalypse that fizzled, how many have I lived through in my lifetime?

    Regarding this:

    INTEL 330 180GB
    NAND: Asynch(?)
    Low Price: $89.95
    High Price: $149.50


    There is no chance the Intel 330 uses asynchronous NAND. The last time Intel used async NAND was in their G2 SSDs, like the X-25 M series, which used ONFI 1.0 Async NAND chips. They were introduced in July, 2009, the 80GB version cost ~$225.

    I'm surprised that Async NAND is still manufactured, given the current ONFI standard of 2.0, and 3.0 will be seen in 2013. Perhaps it is used for other purposes. Any SSD manufacture using Async NAND today may be using NOS (New Old Stock) NAND, which I would think would be cheap. OTOH, prices of the older 34nm NAND chips was much higher than the newer 2Xnm chips, so you can find seemingly strange pricing on older SSDs, like the Intel 510, that currently is priced higher than Intel's 520 SSD, of the same capacity. Not many 510's left, and they are a discontinued product.
    Yeah, you're absolutely right! I was thinking about a different drive when I was typing that, but to clear it up, YES the 330 uses Synchronous MLC NAND!!!
    COGITO ERGO SWITCH
    - i7 3930K - Rampage IV Extreme - 16GB DDR3-2666C10 - 3xEVGA Titan X SLI - Samsung 830 256GB - CaseLabs TH10 White (120mm Top/Pedestal) -
    - EVGA P2-1500W - - LG Slot Load BD Burner - AC Aquaero 6 Full - 8x Seagate 900GB 15krpm 2.5"E-HDD's in RAID0/4x DC S3700 800GB RAID0/4grps*4 WD RE 4TB RAID10/2 512GB SM951/9x Intel X25-E 160GB OP'ed 50% in RAID0 for scratch - Areca 1883ix-8GB-24i4e HW RAID Card WC'ed -
    - 2x Nemesis GTX 560 & 2x GTX 480 (Push-Pull) - 2x Monsta 560/1x UT60 420 (Koolance 2600rpm Push-Pull) - Apogee HD White - HK GPU Blocks - HK Backplates - MIPS R4E MB Block - MCP35X2 - 2x BP Z-Multi 400mL Clear/White Res's -
    - BP DIMM-Freezer x2 4-DIMM Blocks - Phantek SP140 Case Fans - BP/Monsoon Comp/Rotary/Misc Fittings - Rigid Tubing -
    - LG 34UM97 3440x1440 - LG 60" OLED 4K - Creative X-Fi Ti HD - Pioneer Elite SC-89 - Grado PS1000/GS1000/RS1+2's/12+ AKG's/etc - Benchmark DAC2 - Sonus Faber towers (FR/C/FL/SL/SR) - McIntosh 5x250W Amp -

  8. #18
    profJim's Avatar
    profJim is online now Chief Munchkin + moderator
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Tacoma, WA. [USA]
    Posts
    7,811

    Default Re: Asynchronous vs. Synchronous NAND Flash SSD Performance

    As far as I know, consumer grade synchronous and asynchronous Nand both use MLC (Multi-Level Cell).
    Originally only enterprise Nand used the much more expensive and better performing SLC (Single-Level Cell) Nand.
    TLC (Triple Level Cell) Nand is the newest low cost, slower performing Nand, recently used in Samsung's 840 mainstream ssd's. The Samsung 840 PRO modules use their latest toggle Nand that offers top tier performance. Current Samsung ssd pricing shows that the PRO models have prices that are up to 50% higher than their less expensive TLC Nand models. SSD endurance with TLC Nand is a possible long term issue.

    web search: mlc vs slc vs toggle nand


    Micron TLC Nand video:
    Last edited by profJim; 12-24-2012 at 07:45 PM. Reason: add Micron TLC video link
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
    P35-DS4 [rev: 2.0] ~ Bios: F14
    4x2GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 1094MHz @5-5-5-15
    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
    Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (boot)
    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
    Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
    HT|Omega Striker 7.1 sound card ~~ Asus VH242H monitor [1920x1080] ~~ Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium ~~ CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD U.P.S
    .


  9. #19
    parsec's Avatar
    parsec is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Third stone from the sun
    Posts
    4,824

    Default Re: Asynchronous vs. Synchronous NAND Flash SSD Performance

    Quote Originally Posted by nleksan View Post
    Yeah, you're absolutely right! I was thinking about a different drive when I was typing that, but to clear it up, YES the 330 uses Synchronous MLC NAND!!!
    No problem, I just have a thing about inaccurate information in forum posts, that inevitably gets noticed by someone and then spreads that false information elsewhere. It seems false or partially accurate information becomes quickly disseminated across the Internet. Particularly if it is negative about a product.

    But I should talk, given what I wrote about the Monster Digital SSDs. The reviews are not in yet, speaking of which...

  10. #20
    parsec's Avatar
    parsec is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Third stone from the sun
    Posts
    4,824

    Default Re: Asynchronous vs. Synchronous NAND Flash SSD Performance

    Quote Originally Posted by chrisram View Post
    I have the Daytona and its been here since before the launch. They haven't sent me firmware 5.0.3 or higher yet for TRIM to work so it's just sitting in a box. I've emailed their people and they aren't in too big of a hurry to send the firmware. The drive is kind of cool, I think it uses flash from Toshiba. I haven't looked at it in several months but the flash isn't your run of the mill IMFT or Toshiba Toggle. They sent the drive but don't want to aid me in getting the review out so it sits.
    That's interesting, and a shame. I wondered how Monster Digital's support staff would be regarding issues with their products, and your experience may give us some insight.

    You are doing them a favor by not reviewing it in its current state, but IMO you have given Monster Digital a chance to improve it. A review of the SSD as it currently is will show the performance that owners and prospective buyers will get now. If they don't understand that a less than wonderful review for their first foray into the SSD marketplace could ruin their reputation (as you do) then IMO they are not serious about it.

    IMO the TRIM problem with the SandForce firmware was blown out of proportion (not by you Chris R.) by some of the owners of these products. Isn't it true that TRIM worked to some degree, rather than completely non-functional?

Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 12

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •