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Thread: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results




  1. #101
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    Thumbs up Re: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results

    The first prototype fan shroud is installed .... can you say ugly?
    Fan shroud cooling with the stock Talon Attack card appears to be much better than with my original heatsinked Hawk.
    A brief description:
    • an 8 inch (200mm) long, square tube with air flow flaps nearest the end of the video card to direct airflow to the PCB's VRM/Choke area
    • the new Arctic Cooling 92mm PWM case fan replaces the 92mm cpu cooling fan from the Freezer Pro Rev:2 cpu heatsink
    • fan speed is manually set to 1600 rpm

    Three Heaven benchmark tests were run using gpu=930MHz, memory=4200MHz with the Hawk Talon Attack video card, with no additional heatsinks installed..
    With Heaven v2.5, the average FPS were ~10% lower than the Heaven v2.1 tests. GPU temperatures were about 1 degree cooler with v2.5.
    A second v2.5 Heaven test was identical to the first test.
    All three Heaven tests completed without any artifacts or errors.

    re: raggedy edge of overclocking with SLI
    Sure, why not!! Tentative plans are to test using 850 and 900 gpu speeds. 925MHz or higher speeds might be tested.
    I need to find the maximum memory speed, probably ~ 4600MHz for the Talon Attack.
    SLI testing will hopefully start in about two weeks due to:

    • required mods to my Antec 200 case
    • design/build a different fan shroud
    • install VRM heatsinks on the Talon Attack
    • install memory heatsinks on both Hawk cards
    • install win7 on my N650SLI-DS4 backup system

    re: system upgrade
    not very likely in the near future; I would need cpu, mobo, 60/120GB ssd, 640GB HDD, and DDR3 memory.

    re: gaming
    no way, but I'd like to find some nice flight simulators that would let me travel the earth, outer space, or underwater ocean exploration.
    I'm not a fan of chasing/killing zombies, aliens, criminals, enemy combatants etc.
    Dirt2 looks somewhat promising, but I think that I'd tire of it quickly.

    Psycho101, thanks for your suggestions.

    I have Metro 2033 Demo installed on my system, but I can't figure out how to run it in demo mode for benchmark tests.
    I didn't have any luck with configuring/running a Crysis benchmark.

    Any helpful suggestions to get either of these to run in benchmark mode would be appreciated.
    Last edited by profJim; 07-12-2011 at 12:03 AM. Reason: minor edits
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  2. #102
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    Default Re: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results

    There's an older version of the Crysis benchmark tool that works with the SP demo. You can get it at Guru3D.

    As for Metro 2033, there was an official tool included in the last patch, very similar to the Far Cry 2 benchmark utility. As far as I know, it won't work with the demo version because the demo doesn't contain level data needed for the bench to run.

    The only way to get figures with Metro would be to use FRAPS's built in benchmarking utility, trying to run the same route to make each run as similar as possible. FRAPS will output data to Excel, including min, max and average FPS.

    If you're into history and the ocean, check out "Dive to the Titanic" on Steam.

    Dive in your submarine down through the deep 3-D sea to the legendary wreck of the Titanic. Navigate your camera robot through the many decks, rooms and aisles. Discover lost treasures and riches, and upgrade your equipment to complete more challenging missions through the wreck.

    With Dive to the Titanic, you can explore one of the world's most famous shipwrecks brought to life in stunning 3-D detail and with realistic sounds and effects. By completing more missions you can upgrade your underwater equipment, giving you access to more parts of the wreck. At a depth of almost 4,000 meters you must carefully watch the status of your batteries and communications equipment if you are to successfully complete your mission and return from the legendary wreck of the Titanic.
    Dirt 2 is more of a casual pick up and play game, but it's a good title. If you're into simulation then I'd recommend something more in depth like F1 2010, where you can up the realism to your tastes.

    There are also many aircraft sims. Depends on your tastes. Military sims are more common, such as DCS A-10C Warthog, but if you want a wider range of air craft then good old Microsoft Flight Simulator X and the add on packs would be a good option.

    Do note though that not many flight sims will take advantage of the power of SLI, FSX in particular is very CPU heavy.
    Last edited by Psycho101; 07-12-2011 at 06:27 AM.
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  3. #103
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    Default Re: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results

    Thanks for the feedback.
    I currently have Crysis SP Demo installed (~1.8GB download) installed, along with file version 2.4 of CryTools.
    I also have Crysis_2_Multiplayer_Demo-[Guru3D.com] (~1.6GB) downloaded, but not installed.
    I've downloaded the older 1.05 CryTools zip file from Guru3D.
    I'll uninstall/delete the current v2.4 CryTools and install the v1.05 version.
    Should I replace my SP demo installation with the Crysis_2_Demo version?

    I'll check out the various flight sim and the Titanic underseas programs when I've completed my graphics card testing.

    It will be interesting to see if a GTX 460 SLI setup overclocked higher than 900MHz gives a meaningful increase in FPS or allows for higher game settings. My single card benchmarks show very small gains with overclocks higher than 850MHz or with higher graphics memory settings, especially with 900+MHz gpu speeds.

    I'll provide some photos and details of my prototype graphics cooling fan shroud setup in a couple of days.
    Last edited by profJim; 07-13-2011 at 01:54 PM. Reason: spelling
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  4. #104
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    Default Re: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results

    Benching the MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack

    Results below using gpu = 960MHz and memory = 4500MHz
    STALKER - Call of Pripyat using DX11 extreme settings with MSAA = OFF, and screen resolution = 1920 x 1080

    note: with MSAA = 2x and MSAA for A-Tested Objects = DX10.1 Style (Higher Quality), all FPS scores were 25 - 35% lower and the motion was not nearly as smooth.

    copy and paste the picture into your image viewing program to more easily read the results.
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results-stalker-960-4500-dx11-1920x1080-extreme-tess-settings-results-hawktalon-attack-fan-shrou-jpg

    For comparison, the lower FPS screenshot was using my Hawk PJ (Plain Jane) with 935/4200MHz with the same test settings.
    Oh well, it looks like overclocking higher with the Talon Attack doesn't really do much.
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
    P35-DS4 [rev: 2.0] ~ Bios: F14
    4x2GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 1094MHz @5-5-5-15
    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
    Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (boot)
    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
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    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
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    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
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  5. #105
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    Default Re: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results

    As far as I know, the Crysis 2 MP demo was shut down a week or so before the release of the full game. You'll get to the server connect screen (if you already have a demo account, demo account creation is also deactivated now) and all you'll see is a couple of hacked servers.

    If you wanted to test at higher resolutions than your monitor is natively capable of, you could look into downsampling. It involves setting a custom resolution in nVidia CP, and your GPU renders the higher resolution while your monitor scales to fit your screen size. It's a very useful terchnique when a game doesn't support any type of Anti Aliasing (Downsampling basically = full screen super sampling). You should be able to run at least 2560x1440 downsampled on your Asus, as long as you're using a dual link DVI cable. Instructions are here. My Dell can easily cope with 3360x2100.

    With a higher res, you can see if the extra VRAM OC starts to help performance more.
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  6. #106
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    Default Re: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results

    OK, I'll byte.....
    My monitor's native resolution is 1920 x 1080, using a dual-link DVI cable, and running with the 275.33 Nvidia drivers.
    Now all I need to do is understand how and why the super-sampling helps.

    My previous single card benchmarks give lower FPS as the screen resolution increases. I'm curious to see how this technique will help.
    From what I've seen in all other benchmark tests, benchmark scores are usually/always lower as screen resolution increases.
    In many benchmark reviews, I've seen where they need to lower or disable AA to get smooth, playable results.

    Question: Does running with color depth = Medium (16-bit) versus Highest (32-bit) make any difference in gaming FPS?

    Damn, the more I learn, the more I realize how much I really don't know.
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  7. #107
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    Default Re: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results

    The Hawk Talon Attack has gone from "Deactivated" to "Auto Notify", but it is still out of stock.
    Check out Newegg.com - MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack GeForce GTX 460 (Fermi) 1GB Video Card for more information.
    The rebate form, MSI VGA Card July Special Promotion for US Only (07/01/11 - 07/31/11) lists many MSI graphics cards that have rebates, with rebates from $10 - $30.
    N460GTX Hawk rebate is $30, and the Hawk Talon Attack rebate is $20.
    The rebate form states "Only valid on purchases made at: All Resellers".
    Link to Rebate Form PDF.
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    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
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  8. #108
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    Default Re: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results

    Downsampling is just a way of simulating a higher resolution really. Its side effect is anti aliased edges. This is because basically, AA itself is just fake resolution. With AA, the pixels at polygon edges are first rendered internally at either higher res (eg an edge encompasing 20x20 pixels may be rendered at 40x40, 80x80 etc) or multiple times, then the colour value for each original pixel is decided by averaging the values.

    So when downsampling, eg my max res of 3360x2100 does the same job as 2x2 Supersampling. The benefit of this with benchmarking is that it allows you to simulate a higher res is below that you wish to bench. For example, one may notice that after a certain point, increasing VRAM clock speed may not give much increase in performance at 1920x1080(diminishing returns). However, at a higher resolution like 2560x1440 you may find that you continue getting a more linear FPS to VRAM speed improvement up to higher clocks.

    Resolution can be a key factor in deciding what card to get. It can appaer to be a much better option to grab two GTX 460's in SLI than go for even a 580. OC'd to ~850/4000 a 460 will out perform a 580 by a decent margin and is much, much cheaper. However, start using resolutions of 2560x1440 and upward and that performance advantage can disappear. 1GB of VRAM may not be enough in some games at these resolutions, or you may need to make compromises on how much AA is used etc. A 580 in the same situation with 512MB more VRAM and a much wider VRAM bus (384 bit VS 256 bit) might cope noticably better. Testing at such resolutions, one may be able to demonstrate whether OCing the 460's can help overcome any limitation due to VRAM bendwidth. Same applies to core clock too, where going from 850MHz to 925 might show little difference @ 1920x1080 but a very worthwhile increase at 2560x1440.

    In short, your results will definitely be lower in terms of FPS, but short of buying a new monitor with a higher native res, downsampling is an excellent way of benching HD+ resolutions. It's also very useful if someone's about to upgrade monitors and wants to know if their current setup would handle a higher res. High resolutions may also be the only way to really stress your SLI setup in some games. I find myself wishing that there was an affordable IPS 1920x1200 24"-27" monitor available. I'd use that on less demanding titles and switch to my current monitor for others.

    Running a lower colour depth won't really effect performance on modern hardware. Back in the late 90's, 3DFX (Voodoo, Voodoo2, Banshee Voodoo Rush etc) were limited to 16bit colour output. There were other cards released which allowed the use of 24/32bit colour and there were performance disadvantages. It's one of those things that with the advances in hardware have now become a non issue in terms of performance and modern cards will perform the same regardless of colour depth (up to 32 bit of course, not including 36bit and 48bit colour, which require specialist HW and displays).
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  9. #109
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    Thumbs up Re: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results

    Ah ha, I see said the blind man.
    Good explanation, thanks!

  10. #110
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    Thumbs up Re: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results

    Fan shroud installed, first prototype, with new Arctic Cooling 92mm PWM case fan.

    The fan is angled down where the center of the fan is aimed approximately 1" (25mm) from the end of the video card.
    For improved cooling, the outer side of the shroud should be angled inward.
    The fan is secured inside the shroud and is inside the drive bays. This setup takes up a bit more than two drive bays.

    The next prototype fan shroud will position the fan as close as possible to the end of the video card so that only one drive bay will be required.
    The area of one drive bay opening is very close to the surface area of the 92mm fan.
    This is a very cool setup.

    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results-fan-shroud-prototype-1-quarter-vew_800x-jpg
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
    P35-DS4 [rev: 2.0] ~ Bios: F14
    4x2GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 1094MHz @5-5-5-15
    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
    Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (boot)
    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
    Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
    HT|Omega Striker 7.1 sound card ~~ Asus VH242H monitor [1920x1080] ~~ Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium ~~ CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD U.P.S
    .


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