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Thread: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results




  1. #61
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    Default Re: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results

    Heatsink kits arrived, the attached picture shows each kit with the heatsinks placed on top of the 12 VRM chips.
    1. The silver anodized aluminum heatsinks are a perfect fit.
    2. The gold anodized aluminum heatsinks will each need to have their length trimmed to ~ 16mm.
    3. As expected, each Enzotech BMR-C1 heatsink doesn't quite cover the full top surface of each group of 4 VRM chips.

    A small relief area will need to be cut in the bottom of each heatsink base for clearance of one of the pcb components that is taller than the height of each VRM chip.

    I'm moving my hardware to another computer case and will be installing a new Xigmatek Balder cpu cooler. The Hawk's cpu cooler base will be lapped to see if the smoother base improves the already decent cooling properties, and new baseline temperature measurements will be tracked. Using my infrared digital thermometer, I will try go get some baseline temperature readings from the bare VRM chips while benchmarking with Unique Heaven (DX11) at the maximum stable gpu/memory overclock settings. Follow up tests will track temperatures and maximum possible overclock settings for each of the kits.

    The first test will use the silver heatsink kit, followed by the gold heatsink kit. The final test will use the Enzotech copper heatsinks and these will be installed for an extended period of time to see if they remain firmly attached to the chips. If the much heavier weight of the copper heatsinks causes them to separate from the chips, a follow up test will be done where they will be sliced and diced so that each of the six modified 6 - 8mm wide by 14 mm long heatsinks will only cover two vrm chips.

    The current height of each BMR-C1 heatsink is 14mm, so each heatsink pin will need to be trimmed to ~ 10mm height so that the top of the pins is almost touching the underside of the Hawk's cooling fins.

    The silver aluminum and Enzotech heatsinks came with thin, pre-applied thermal tape.

    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results-heatsinks-msi-n460gtx-hawk-1gb-pcb-256c-jpg
    Last edited by profJim; 04-01-2011 at 05:11 AM.
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  2. #62
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    Default Re: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results

    Hehehe thx profjim ^_^ for letting me "still" in this forum... btw so The silver anodized aluminum heatsinks are perfect for this card, but how to bond it profjim? are they equipped with double layer thermal tape? i guess so :)
    This is very good information for those who wanna get their mosfet cooller than usual, especially for overclocking... msi twinfrozer really have great heatsink for gpu but i'm little disappoint that they dont give heatsink on mosfet, other brands did, like gigabyte GTX460 i saw a 4cm (i think) heatsink on mosfet.
    And last i just downgrade to Zotac GTX470Amp ^_^ and overclocking it up to 815/1000 ..... gpu score in vantage have passed GTX560 (at 900mhz) abit which is 20.038 vs 19.500 but for DX11 performance in 3DMark2011 GTX560 cannot catch up GTX470 :) it was P5511 vs P4536.

    Note: Profjim, how about ramsink on GTX460 hawk? do you have info? :)
    Last edited by Neoroy; 04-06-2011 at 02:01 PM.
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  3. #63
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    Default Re: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results

    Neoroy, good to hear from you.
    It looks like your GTX 470's 33% overclock performs nicely, if you can put up with the added noise and heat.
    Did you get to o/c your GTX 560 up to 1000MHz? I've read several reviews where the GTX 560 could o/c in the upper 900MHz range.

    There's a problem with installing heatsinks on the Hawk's ram because there is almost no clearance between the the top of the memory chips and the lower edge of the gpu cooling fins. The memory chips at the top of the pcb only have about 3mm clearance to the bottom of the cooling fins. Some of the memory chips in the middle of the card have much more clearance.

    The silver aluminum heatsinks come with pre-applied thin thermal tape, and the gold aluminum heatsinks don't come with any thermal tape. The copper Enzotech heatsinks have pre-applied 3M 8815 thermal tape.

    I lapped the Hawk's gpu and applied Ceramique thermal grease, but so far there's virtually no difference in load temperatures with Furmark or MSI Kombustor. The Ceramique requires 25 hours of curing time with numerous on/off heating/cooling cycles. Arctic Silver's AS5 requires 200 hours of thermal heating/cooling cycles to reach maximum effectiveness.

    Using my infrared laser digital thermometer, I can monitor temperatures on the back of the pcb. With a 920MHz overclock, the gpu and VRM's measured 61 degrees (C) on the back of the pcb when stress testing with Furmark and Kombustor without any VRM heatsinks installed. The Heaven v2.1 benchmark is stable at 910MHz, but fails at 3:30 with 920MHz when using DX11 and normal Tessellation. At 920MHz, this test completed when I lowered the shader test setting from "high" to "medium" and lowered Anisotropy from 4 to 2.

    I hope to modify the base of the silver aluminum heatsinks tonight and install them. I'll also slice and dice the heatsinks to cover the other six VRM chips on the top of the pcb and the voltage regulator on the bottom of the pcb. The second test will use the copper Enzotech heatsinks even though they will leave a small 1/2 mm portion of each pair of VRM chips uncovered. I'll also slice and dice the heatsinks to cover the other six VRM chips on the top of the pcb and the voltage regulator on the bottom of the pcb.

    I probably won't test the gold colered aluminum heatsinks and just use them as high tech paper weights just to show how cool I am.
    Last edited by profJim; 04-07-2011 at 12:00 AM.
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  4. #64
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    Default Re: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results

    The attached pictures show four of the aluminum VRM heatsinks mounted and attached to the video card. All three silver colored heatsinks have a full width groove carved into each heatsink base to clear the pcb component that is taller than the height of the VRM chips. Each heatsink uses the pre-applied thermal tape to secure it to the top of each group of four VRM chips. Each heatsink is placed so that it doesn't touch any of the other nearby "too tall" pcb components.

    Details for modding and mounting the heatsinks will follow in a day or two.

    Additional Heaven and a few other benchmarks will follow once the gpu thermal grease has had a chance to fully cure, which should lower gpu temperatures somewhat.

    Preliminary Heaven benchmark results:
    Using DX11, Tessellation = normal, 1600 x 900 screen resolution, shaders = medium (not the default high setting) and fan speed = 100% (not using AUTO), the highest stable overclock was gpu = 925MHz and memory = 4200MHz (QDR). Before the heatsinks were installed, 915MHz was the highest stable gpu configuration using these settings.

    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results-msi-n460gtx-hawk-1gb-mounted-heatsinks-x5-comments-portrait2-256c-jpg
    Last edited by profJim; 04-11-2011 at 02:42 PM. Reason: updated picture
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
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    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
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  5. #65
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    Default Re: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results

    With the four installed VRM heatsinks, the temperature of the backside of the Hawk's pcb shows a 3 - 6 degree (C) drop when running Ozone's FurMark and a couple of gaming benchmarks with gpu = 920MHz.
    The gpu temperature has dropped 2 - 4 degrees during these tests.
    The attached picture shows the results of several Heaven and Stalker/Pripyat results. It looks like adding the heatsinks allows a 5 - 10MHz increase in the maximum stable gpu overclock. It's too bad that AfterBurner limits the gpu voltage increase to 0.1 volts. Using the older AfterBurner version allowed up to a 0.2 volt gpu increase, but it's not worth the trouble of resetting the system date back to August/September of 2010 each time we want to push the limits. My best guess is that with the heatsinks installed, a modest 0.02 - 0.03 increase would probably keep board temperatures near the 900+ gpu speeds with no heatsinks.

    **edit** Assuming that the watt meter in the Zalman ZM-MFC2 fan controller is accurate:
    - With the FurMark test using Displacement Mapping, and Post FX options, system power draw was 350 - 380 watts.
    - The Heaven and Stalker tests required ~ 270 - 290 watts.
    --> Normal psu load for my P35-DS3L is 100 - 110 watts (monitor NOT included).

    screen resolution note:
    • 1680 x 1050 pixels is ~ 15% lower than 1920 x 1080 pixels
    • 1600 x 900 pixels is ~ 19% lower than 1680 x 1050 pixels
    (right click and copy the picture to your image viewing program to see the image information)

    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results-heaven-stalker-pripyat-9xxmhz-results-vrm-heatsinks-256c-bz-jpg
    Last edited by profJim; 04-13-2011 at 01:29 PM. Reason: more information
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    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
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    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
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  6. #66
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    Default Re: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results

    Here are some Heaven v2.1 benchmark results.
    If you want to overclock higher than 950MHz, buy a GTX 560Ti.

    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results-msi-n460gtx-hawk-1gb-heaven-version-2-1-overclock-results-v2-0-0-beta7-updt-png
    Last edited by profJim; 04-15-2011 at 05:51 PM. Reason: corrections and added missing test results
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    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
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    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
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    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
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    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
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  7. #67
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    Default Re: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results

    right click and view or copy to your image viewing program for an uncompressed & undistorted view
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results-msi-n460gtx-hawk-1gb-stock-heatsink-cooler-base-comparison-text-256c-jpg
    Last edited by profJim; 04-17-2011 at 11:02 PM.
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
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    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
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    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
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    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
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  8. #68
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    Default Re: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results

    Sorry for the delay in updating the status of the heatsink progress.
    I've been tied up with upgrading some system hardware and performing UPS/psu compatibility testing.
    My first of two 2x2GB DDR2 1066 memory kits just arrived and the second kit will arrive tomorrow or the following day. Installing 8GB of memory will take some time to perform stability/stress testing.

    I hope to update the heatsink progress by this coming weekend.
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
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    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
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    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
    Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
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    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
    HT|Omega Striker 7.1 sound card ~~ Asus VH242H monitor [1920x1080] ~~ Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
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  9. #69
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    Default Re: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results

    Check out [Tutorial] Graphics Cards Voltage Regulator Modules (VRM) Explained - Geeks3D.com to learn the basics about how VRM chips and chokes provide power to a video card.

    The green boxes in the attached picture show where the aluminum heatsinks are currently mounted on the top of the Hawk's printed circuit board (pcb).
    The large green box shows where the three large heatsinks are mounted.
    The smaller green box is where a smaller heatsink covers three of the VRM chips.

    The yellow boxes are chips that do not yet have smaller 6mm x 6mm heatsinks installed.
    The yellow box on the back of the pcb is the voltage regulator.
    The double yellow box only has 3mm of clearance so it's not practical to install a heasink that has a 1mm thick base.
    The yellow boxed chip just above the chokes is slightly taller than the three nearby chips so this single chip needs an individual heatsink.

    The red box on the top of the pcb shows the six chokes that are part of the VRM circuits. These gray boxes almost touch the bottom of the Hawk's cooling fins.

    I've found that while doing graphics benchmarks and FurMark testing, the red boxed area on the back side of the pcb is about the same temperature as the back side of the gpu and that these temperatures are virtually the same as the reported gpu temperatures in monitoring programs. This localized heat issue below the chokes is an unexpected disappointment. The green boxed area on the back of the pcb next to the chokes is significantly cooler. I doubt that these higher red box temperatures are a reason for concern, but this shows that the current heatsink installation doesn't go far enough. I don't think that it's possible to install heatsinks on the back of the pcb under the chokes because of circuit wire traces in this area and the twelve circular connectors are about 1mm tall.

    My Cooler Master RC-690 computer case has a 140mm, 50cfm fan on the side panel that blows outside air directly to the the area of the gpu, VRM chips and chokes. It looks like about two thirds of the airflow goes to the Hawk's large gpu cooling fins and dual fan intake area and about one third of the airflow is directed to the back side of the pcb.

    I'm going to rerun the Heaven 2.1, STALKER and FurMark benchmarks to closely monitor pcb temperatures during the tests. Tests will include 780MHz stock settings, 850MHz and 915MHz.

    No, the sky isn't falling and I'm not worried about buring up my Hawk, I'm just disappointed with these unexpected localized high temperatures.

    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results-msi-n460gtx-hawk-pcb-top-bottom-views-color-boxes-p256c-jpg
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
    P35-DS4 [rev: 2.0] ~ Bios: F14
    4x2GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 1094MHz @5-5-5-15
    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
    Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (boot)
    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
    Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
    HT|Omega Striker 7.1 sound card ~~ Asus VH242H monitor [1920x1080] ~~ Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium ~~ CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD U.P.S
    .


  10. #70
    profJim's Avatar
    profJim is online now Chief Munchkin + moderator
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    Default Re: MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results

    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) PCB Temperatures [Back side of pcb]
    Aluminum heatsinks are installed on the top side of the pcb.

    cpu: E6300 (R0) 3.496GHz
    mobo: P35-DS3L (rev: 1.0), bios: F9
    memory: Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 874MHz @ 2.20 volts (4-4-4-10 ), 8GB
    Nvidia driver: 266.58
    Screen resolution: 1920 x 1080

    idle temperatures (C): gpu 27 ----- VRM 28.4 ---- Choke 29.3
    idle psu watts: 104
    idle A.C. Amps: 1.1 (120 volts)

    Heaven v2.1 and Stalker-Call of Pripyat DX11 tests were run using 780x3600, 850x4000, 900x4200 and 920x4200 gpu/memory settings. Both benchmark programs had nearly identical temperatures and power loads during the tests. Temperature readings were taken from the back side of the printed circuit board using an infrared digital thermometer. 120 volt A.C. amperage measurements were taken using a digital clamp meter that registered the psu's A.C. power draw.

    During these tests, ambient temperature was 19 Celsius. All test temperatures are Celsius.

    780x3600 -- gpu = 48 -- VRM = 35 -- Choke = 41 -- AC = 2.2 amps --- psu = 242 watts
    850x4000 -- gpu = 49 -- VRM = 37 -- Choke = 42 -- AC = 2.2 amps --- psu = 249 watts
    900x4200* -- gpu = 53 -- VRM = 39 -- Choke = 43 -- AC = 2.4 amps --- psu = 281 watts
    920x4200* - gpu = 57 -- VRM = 48 -- Choke = 52 -- AC = 2.5 amps --- psu = 297 watts
    *Heaven didn't complete the 900 and 920MHz tests.

    A ten minute Kombustor PostFX test was run using 940x4200MHz with gpu core = +130mv:
    940x4200 -- gpu = 66 -- VRM = 50 -- Choke = 61 -- AC = 2.9 amps --- psu = 357 watts

    **edit** I just noticed that my psu would need to have 100% or more efficiency for the AC amperage values to be accurate. The AC amp values are not correct because the power draw from my Monitor (~ 30 - 35 watts) is included in the total amperage load. I'll correct these figures after the next test.
    The psu wattage consumption values are correct.


    (copy and paste the picture into your image viewing program to read the details)
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) Overclocking Results-p35-win7-kombustor-postfx-940_4200_10-minutes_1920x1080-2011-05-17-256c-1000-jpg
    Last edited by profJim; 05-20-2011 at 11:08 PM. Reason: minor correction
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
    P35-DS4 [rev: 2.0] ~ Bios: F14
    4x2GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 1094MHz @5-5-5-15
    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
    Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (boot)
    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
    Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
    HT|Omega Striker 7.1 sound card ~~ Asus VH242H monitor [1920x1080] ~~ Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium ~~ CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD U.P.S
    .


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