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Thread: *the Upgraded Rig*




  1. #21
    Beefy Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mista K6
    Well, I'm gonna get the RAM running at 233 even tho my bus will be at stock 200 (like the difference Beefy had his comp at).
    Not many motherboards, especially older ones, support this. It's only come about fairly recently that you can run your RAM at different frequencies to your FSB (mainly due to the fact that RAM speeds are faster than any FSB at the moment). And, truth be told, there's not that much to gain from it.

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
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    Thats right... so if I were you I would keep the RAM in syn with the FSB. AMD mobo's are more known for running out of sync by mhz (not ratios), and that is often the choice of many overclockers. However with pc3700 RAM and your system ram/cpu/mobo combo, overclocking would be effectice and a breeze. But hey, its your world. Blow it up!! lol ;)

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
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    Actually, I think I'm gonna like the world a lot more once I get this stuff :D , so I just might wait on blowing it up. So then, when I get the comp up and running, I wanna run it at stock for a bit. So when I first start it up and run BIOS, when I run the CPU at 200FSB, I'll have to run the RAM at 200 also (making it 400MHz)? Then when I overclock tho, the RAM will be able to run all that faster (233 etc) w/o putting out too much heat? Sounds good, I'm just gonna wait now till I get the cash. Thx alot, : peace2: Mista K6
    Modified Dell 8200 Case:
    -400MHz FSB i850 Intel mobo
    -P4 Williamette Socket 478, 1.9GHz
    -768MB 16-bit PC800 RDRAM
    -MSI GF4 Ti4200 128MB @ 284/581
    -7200 RPM Maxtors: 60GB (2MB) on mobo and 160GB (8MB) on ATA/133 PCI Card
    -Creative Inspire T7700 7.1 Speaker System on an Audigy 2
    -Windows XP Home Edition SP2

    Rock on : peace2: , MiStA K6

  4. #24
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    Jul 2002
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    Sounds like a decent plan to me :smokin:

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
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    790

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    I just noticed something: that Cosair XMS has incredibly high timings:

    Tested at relaxed latency settings (3-4-4-8) for optimal memory bus speed
    Operation not recommended at low latency values
    Optimum Canterwood performance achieved at high bus speed and relaxed latency

    Dont those really suck? If I was buying a 2.4C and was gonna crank it to 3ghz, then I could see why I need that. But it says right there it isnt recommended for low values :mad: . Since I'm at most gonna be running it at stock speed, I'll want better timings (CAS 2.5 at least). So, back to the drawing board... :scream: . I've been looking at OCZ

    http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProduc...by=14&order=1,

    The 3700EL 256mb module, I'll just buy two of those, and they should run ok together, right? It doesnt seem like you HAVE to buy a specified twin pair to operate in dual channel.

    The other thing would be going down and getting 3500. Cosair XMS 3500 is supposed to be some of the fastest in the world (for gaming, etc) with 2-3-3-7 timings, but they're wicked expensive ($175 for one 512mb module). Geil is a cheaper, w/ 2-3-3-6 timings, 1GB for $219, but is it any good? I'm kind of stuck here, so any help is good, I just wanna have wicked fast RAM that can handle speeds up to (I'm hoping) 233MHz, but if it's really fast with low timings, I can settle for less. Thx a lot for all the help already, I'm kind of angry I hit this wall at the last stretch, bah . : peace2: Mista K6
    Modified Dell 8200 Case:
    -400MHz FSB i850 Intel mobo
    -P4 Williamette Socket 478, 1.9GHz
    -768MB 16-bit PC800 RDRAM
    -MSI GF4 Ti4200 128MB @ 284/581
    -7200 RPM Maxtors: 60GB (2MB) on mobo and 160GB (8MB) on ATA/133 PCI Card
    -Creative Inspire T7700 7.1 Speaker System on an Audigy 2
    -Windows XP Home Edition SP2

    Rock on : peace2: , MiStA K6

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
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    No problem, these things happen :rolleyes:

    For the 865/875 chipsets, relaxed latency in exchange for higher clock speed IS the way to go. AMD isn't the same way. The OCZ memory you were looking at is actually designed for the 865/875 chipsets. Corsair is good stuff too, its a top player in the memory fights.

    To answer your question, no you don't need dual channel kits for dual channel to work. All the DC kits do is guarantee that they'll work together in DC mode, the only difference is they were taken off the same manufacturing line. As long as you buy two sticks of the same DDR sticks you should be fine.

    If you're not going to overclock much though, then just find the best available memory at what speed you want (ie pc3500 @ 2-3-3-6 or whatever). Using 466mhz RAM running @ 433 would be a waste so save that money and buy something better (better latency RAM, better PSU or case, faster processor, etc). Lets take that wall down shall we
    :bounce:

  7. #27
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    Jan 2003
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    Well see, that's the problem right there, there's only two ways I see around the wall, lol. I was reading this article at Tom's Hardware : http://www6.tomshardware.com/howto/2...tuning-03.html

    Notice how it says timings can give you better performance than faster bus speeds, which makes alot of sense if you think about it. However, I havent seen a 3700 module with low timings (latency especially). I mean, 3-4-4-8 is pretty bad as far as timings go. Now 3500 XMS goes at 2-3-3-7, which is pretty good. So, I guess my main ways of getting around it are:

    1) Buy 2x 256MB of Cosair XMS 3700 at the 3-4-4-8 (bah) and run it stock (233) at with a FSB of 233 (proc at 3.2GHZ). This would be sweet if it would allow me to bring down the timings cause I'm running it at stock. Also, if I cant bring down the timings, it would seem that a 3700 module is just a 3500 with upped timings so it can handle higher FSB speeds...

    2) Same situation as above, but buy 2x 256MB of OCZ 3700 at CAS 2.5-3-3-7 which seems to be much better. It's only $85 a module too ($170 total). I would go to the gold series, but I dont have the cash, so I think this will do.

    3) Buy 2x 256 or 2x 512MB ($350 :yuc: ) of Cosair XMS 3500 (2-3-3-7) and run it at stock (216 or 217) and run the FSB the same (proc at 3.0GHz) and leave it there (bah) or try to boost it up to 233. Would heat then become in issue?

    4) same as about, only with Geil, as 1GB is only $219, and it has 2-3-3-6 (but does it overclock as well).

    I think option 2 looks the best, but I'm a newb, so correct me if I'm wrong. I'm basically looking for the best performance/reliability/overclocking ability(up to 233) of the 3 (maybe price in there too). Just tell me what ya think :thumb: . Thx alot for the replies, specifically scooder, lol. : peace2: Mista K6.

    EDIT: Son of a... ok, here's another minor problem. I just read the review of the new via chipset. It seems that the canterwood really outperforms the the springdale, so I'm gonna move to a canterwood board instead. I really like the Abit IC7-G or the MSI 875P NEO (do they o/c well?). Is 1000 ethernet capable by desktops, or is that server only? if its by desktops, I'll get the IC7-G :thumb: . Lemme know what you think of those boards, or if oyu have other suggestions, let me know! : peace2: Mista K6 (again :p ) Holy c*** that was a long post...
    Modified Dell 8200 Case:
    -400MHz FSB i850 Intel mobo
    -P4 Williamette Socket 478, 1.9GHz
    -768MB 16-bit PC800 RDRAM
    -MSI GF4 Ti4200 128MB @ 284/581
    -7200 RPM Maxtors: 60GB (2MB) on mobo and 160GB (8MB) on ATA/133 PCI Card
    -Creative Inspire T7700 7.1 Speaker System on an Audigy 2
    -Windows XP Home Edition SP2

    Rock on : peace2: , MiStA K6

  8. #28
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
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    Well I would also choose option 2. This really is a hard decision, I know. When it comes to higher fsb or better timings, for games a higher fsb will show more profit almost all of the time. In your case its like moving from a pentium 4 3.0ghz to a 3.2ghz depending on which option you choose, which if you look at site reviews and benchmarks does make a fairly reasonable performance gain. From what I know, more than having a bit faster timings at least. Still, best thing to do is look at those sites and find reviews for what they were able to get the RAM to overclock to and how tight they could get their timings. Every mhz added to your fsb gives you 14 more mhz to your processor. So compare memory reviews to processor (2.8 vs 3.0 vs 3.2, etc) reviews, and that should make life easier.

    When it comes to moving to moving to the 875 chipset... well, don't bother. Intel have the PAT which was only supposed to work on 875 but with bios updates just about all 865's perform as well as their big brother because engineers found a way against intel's blocking of the PAT technology. You could imagine how upset Intel would be about this. So unless you want more board features, stick with the 865's. The ones I would reccomend are: Abit IS7 (or IS7-E if you can find it), Asus P4P800, or MSI Neo2, but they are pretty much all on the same level. These are just the ones that have overclocked the best by a slight margin.

  9. #29
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    Jan 2003
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    I def like the OCZ RAM. 1GB would seem like over kill, as I've never been able to use 768MB of RAM I have now; even when I change a game catch to 768MB in UT2003 and turn EVERYTHING up to full blast, I only used 384 I think. And considering this RAM is more than twice as fast (PC800 = 3.2GB/s, 3700 on i865 = 8GB/s, I think), I should have no problem :thumb: .
    So, is that review biased then? Cause the i875 seriously whooped the i865, so were the i865 BIOS not updated/softmodded? J/w, as it seems the i865 is seriously embraced by the gaming community now (like the Abit game accelerator ad on the top of this page, :laugh: ). However, I'm gonna keep reading reviews and see what happens. Overall, I dont want to pay more than $180 for a board (under $150 would be even better). I really like abit tho, so basically it's a choice between the IC7 or the IS7, and their varients. Thx alot, : peace2: Mista K6
    Modified Dell 8200 Case:
    -400MHz FSB i850 Intel mobo
    -P4 Williamette Socket 478, 1.9GHz
    -768MB 16-bit PC800 RDRAM
    -MSI GF4 Ti4200 128MB @ 284/581
    -7200 RPM Maxtors: 60GB (2MB) on mobo and 160GB (8MB) on ATA/133 PCI Card
    -Creative Inspire T7700 7.1 Speaker System on an Audigy 2
    -Windows XP Home Edition SP2

    Rock on : peace2: , MiStA K6

  10. #30
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mista K6
    I def like the OCZ RAM. 1GB would seem like over kill, as I've never been able to use 768MB of RAM I have now; even when I change a game catch to 768MB in UT2003 and turn EVERYTHING up to full blast, I only used 384 I think. And considering this RAM is more than twice as fast (PC800 = 3.2GB/s, 3700 on i865 = 8GB/s, I think), I should have no problem :thumb: .
    So, is that review biased then? Cause the i875 seriously whooped the i865, so were the i865 BIOS not updated/softmodded? J/w, as it seems the i865 is seriously embraced by the gaming community now (like the Abit game accelerator ad on the top of this page, :laugh: ). However, I'm gonna keep reading reviews and see what happens. Overall, I dont want to pay more than 0 for a board (under 0 would be even better). I really like abit tho, so basically it's a choice between the IC7 or the IS7, and their varients. Thx alot, : peace2: Mista K6
    Yeah, for most people (including myself) 1gb is overkill. I don't know what review you saw, but it may have been done before the first PAT bios was unlocked (by asus i believe). Here's a more recent one showing lots of different boards so you can see the 865 is up to par with the 875 now:
    http://www6.tomshardware.com/motherb...707/index.html

    Yeah, I'm in the same boat as you... I'm just waiting for my supplier to get more stock of the IS7-E right now as they're sold out.

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