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Thread: Thought's on New Rig.




  1. #11
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    Default Re: Thought's on New Rig.

    Quote Originally Posted by matm347
    What game? Like I said, some games it makes more of a difference. Not many people can distinguish 85FPS from 100 FPS from simply watching the screen...but "parts where it use to freeze" is why I emphasized the importance of a fast hard drive in a gaming system.
    If you bothered to look at the link, you would see the article shows exactly what I was talking about. The preliminary run vs cached runs.
    I see where you're getting this... The performance increase is because it's a timedemo. You won't get any actual performance increase because you can't cache an actual game session. You can cache a timedemo because it just a record. Because of that, the HDD can make a difference in timedemo performance if you're dumb enough to use cached timedemos, but that has absolutely nothing to do with real-world performance.

    Quote Originally Posted by matm347
    Also, all I stated was to get the fastest RAM possible. Yawg was the one who said "timings dont matter that much on AMD64s". Someone who completely believed that comment might end up thinking he could save the $10 and get CAS 3 or worse...where it would definitely hurt performance.
    I'd certainly pay $10 to get better latencies, but with 1GB sticks it tends to be a lot more than $10 for latency improvements. The cheapest CAS 2 single 1GB stick of PC3200 on Newegg is about $105, while the cheapest CAS 2.5 1GB stick of PC3200 is about $80. Get two and you're talking about paying $50 that will be less than 5 framerates difference in-game.

  2. #12

    Default Re: Thought's on New Rig.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yawgm0th
    I see where you're getting this... The performance increase is because it's a timedemo. You won't get any actual performance increase because you can't cache an actual game session. You can cache a timedemo because it just a record. Because of that, the HDD can make a difference in timedemo performance if you're dumb enough to use cached timedemos, but that has absolutely nothing to do with real-world performance.
    Yes, but you have it backwards...sorta...see how much slower the first round is compared to the second? The faster the hard drive, the quicker the first round score will be.


    You are correct in knowing the first round score is more of a real world benchmark but the second score is where most benchmarks for video cards comes from, because you don't want hard drive performance affecting a video card benchmark.


    Quote Originally Posted by Yawgm0th
    I'd certainly pay $10 to get better latencies, but with 1GB sticks it tends to be a lot more than $10 for latency improvements. The cheapest CAS 2 single 1GB stick of PC3200 on Newegg is about $105, while the cheapest CAS 2.5 1GB stick of PC3200 is about $80. Get two and you're talking about paying $50 that will be less than 5 framerates difference in-game.
    I just threw $10 bux out there...the point I was trying to make was that a guy spending $550+(or whatever he spends) on a video card would not see its full potential if he just thought any old RAM would work and that spending the extra $10(or $20 or $50) would be worth it. Spend the $$$ in the RAM and not as much in the CPU...or "RAM should not be skimped on, get the fastest timings you can afford".
    Last edited by matm347; 12-21-2005 at 10:20 AM.

  3. #13
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    Default Re: Thought's on New Rig.

    Quote Originally Posted by matm347
    Yes, but you have it backwards...sorta...see how much slower the first round is compared to the second? The faster the hard drive, the quicker the first round score will be.
    Yeah, I got that. Nothing's backwards.

    Quote Originally Posted by matm347
    You are correct in knowing the first round score is more of a real world benchmark but the second score is where most benchmarks for video cards comes from, because you don't want hard drive performance affecting a video card benchmark.
    Yes and no. The first round isn't real-world at all. In a non-cached timedemo, a game will constantly be reading from the drive. This is not the case in-game. In-game, everything that needs to be used is cached, and there's no recorded data to read from the hard drive. A test of a non-cached timedemo isn't real-world at all. It isn't even remotely useful. It's certainly not relevent to this topic.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: Thought's on New Rig.

    Quote Originally Posted by matm347
    What game? Like I said, some games it makes more of a difference. Not many people can distinguish 85FPS from 100 FPS from simply watching the screen...but "parts where it use to freeze" is why I emphasized the importance of a fast hard drive in a gaming system.
    If you bothered to look at the link, you would see the article shows exactly what I was talking about. The preliminary run vs cached runs.

    Also, all I stated was to get the fastest RAM possible. Yawg was the one who said "timings dont matter that much on AMD64s". Someone who completely believed that comment might end up thinking he could save the $10 and get CAS 3 or worse...where it would definitely hurt performance.
    F.E.A.R., Quake 4, and doom 3. Why assume i did not look at the link? cause i did, why assume i used my eyes? when really i was using FRAPS. My point that i missed to add in my previous comment was that, SATA did provide fast load times, but overall the fps did not increase, only LOAD times. I doubt a 74k hdd would be nesscesary, a regular 3.0gb sata drive is sufficient enough.

  5. #15

    Default Re: Thought's on New Rig.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yawgm0th
    Yeah, I got that. Nothing's backwards.


    Yes and no. The first round isn't real-world at all. In a non-cached timedemo, a game will constantly be reading from the drive. This is not the case in-game. In-game, everything that needs to be used is cached, and there's no recorded data to read from the hard drive. A test of a non-cached timedemo isn't real-world at all. It isn't even remotely useful. It's certainly not relevent to this topic.
    All textures and other map information is not loaded before each and every level on each and every game. Which is why some games have a much lower preliminary run and also the reason a faster hard drive will make a difference in some games. The reading from a hard drive during play of a non-cached demo is indeed relevant as it is closer to running around a map in a game that is not pre-cached.
    Last edited by matm347; 12-21-2005 at 12:50 PM.

  6. #16

    Default Re: Thought's on New Rig.

    Quote Originally Posted by AsianBatman
    F.E.A.R., Quake 4, and doom 3. Why assume i did not look at the link? cause i did, why assume i used my eyes? when really i was using FRAPS. My point that i missed to add in my previous comment was that, SATA did provide fast load times, but overall the fps did not increase, only LOAD times. I doubt a 74k hdd would be nesscesary, a regular 3.0gb sata drive is sufficient enough.
    I assumed you did not read the link because you said " matm your example for the ram is irrelevant because no one brought it up, only you did"
    I assumed by "example" you were talking about the link.

    Not sure where size was mentioned....size doesn't really matter, to an extent, in this case, drive performance does.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: Thought's on New Rig.

    Quote Originally Posted by matm347
    All textures and other map information is not loaded before each and every level on each and every game.
    No, it pretty much is. When it's not, you see initial loading pauses, or jerkiness in game. When it stops, everything is loaded into system and video memory. If it weren't, modern games would be unplayable. Loading times are long for a reason.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: Thought's on New Rig.

    Quote Originally Posted by matm347
    I assumed you did not read the link because you said " matm your example for the ram is irrelevant because no one brought it up, only you did"
    I assumed by "example" you were talking about the link.

    Not sure where size was mentioned....size doesn't really matter, to an extent, in this case, drive performance does.
    I did read, and probably missed it, and i am not talking about size, 74k referring to the raptor, and 3.0gb sata refering to a regular sata drive.

  9. #19
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    Default Re: Thought's on New Rig.

    Raptors are a waste of money. Just get a SAtA drive. Sure there are a few instances where a Raptor may provide more real world speed. Think of it this way, if they really made that much of a difference, wouldn't you see alot more people using them? I have also read where they are prone to sudden death syndrome and then you ca kiss your data goodbye. If you want real speed and performance from your hard drives, go with SCSI. Now there is a real boost in speed you will see and feel.
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  10. #20

    Default Re: Thought's on New Rig.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yawgm0th
    No, it pretty much is. When it's not, you see initial loading pauses, or jerkiness in game. When it stops, everything is loaded into system and video memory. If it weren't, modern games would be unplayable. Loading times are long for a reason.
    As I said before, some games do, some games don't modern or not.

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