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Thread: Need help building a new gaming computer




  1. #11
    profJim's Avatar
    profJim is online now Chief Munchkin + moderator
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    Default Re: Need help building a new gaming computer

    I posted the following information in another thread several hours ago:
    Keep in mind that there is known Haswell problem with some usb 3.0 flash drives and waking from sleep.
    This should be fixed if you wait until August to buy updated hardware when the problem has been fixed.
    A web search using: haswell usb issues will provide more information.
    This might mean that Haswell motherboards and/or processors might be in limited supply until the updated hardware is available, probably in early August or somewhat later. I think that it's best to wait for hardware updates that fix the usb 3.0 problem.

    If you want to overclock the cpu, you need to buy a K-model cpu, such as 3570K or 3770K for Ivy Bridge or 4570K or 4770K for Haswell. You can't do a full cpu overclock with the non-K models. For the best gaming performance, you want to overclock the cpu, memory and video card(s). Haswell performance will be similar to Ivy Bridge performance, but Haswell's built-in support for additional Intel sata3 and usb 3.0 ports is a huge improvement and means that you won't have issues with the Ivy Bridge systems that need to use sata3 or usb 3.0 controllers from Marvel, ASMedia or others which often have "issues."

    It looks like some B75 motherboards support SLI and/or CrossfireX, but the B75 has fewer pci-e lanes for video card support which means that the video cards will have worse performance due to lower bandwidth with the reduced number of pci-e lanes. Setting up two video cards for SLI is easy, and the "fun" comes when you overclock the video cards and perform the needed stress tests to ensure that your overclock is stable. I taught myself video card overclocking with my MSI N460GTX Hawk video cards by reading overclocking tutorials on the web. Check out the MSI overclocking thread in my forum signature for an idea of how I did and what was involved.

    You won't need to overclock your cpu or video cards to get decent performance, but if you do, you well get much better gaming performance. From the reviews that I've read, SLI gaming performance will improve by ~40 - 100% in different games. You can start out with a single video card and see how well your new system performs. I bought my second video card about 6 months after the first card when I found an excellent mail-in rebate. Using rebates, I saved about $40 on each of my video cards. Most mail in rebates are only valid for one video card at a time and you usually have to wait for a new rebate offer to buy the second card at a later time.

    Check out http://forums.tweaktown.com/storage-...sd-budget.html for some ssd recommendations. The Samsung Magician software is very easy to use when setting up their ssd's. My preference is for the 128GB or 256GB 840 PRO models. Do not buy their less expensive 120GB 840 standard model that uses TLC Nand memory.

    Z77 is for Ivy Bridge and Z87 is for Haswell.
    Gaming performance is like racing; how fast are you willing to spend.
    Last edited by profJim; 05-30-2013 at 05:00 AM. Reason: spelling
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
    P35-DS4 [rev: 2.0] ~ Bios: F14
    4x2GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 1094MHz @5-5-5-15
    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
    Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (boot)
    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
    Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
    HT|Omega Striker 7.1 sound card ~~ Asus VH242H monitor [1920x1080] ~~ Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium ~~ CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD U.P.S
    .


  2. #12
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    Default Re: Need help building a new gaming computer

    Quote Originally Posted by profJim View Post
    I posted the following information in another thread several hours ago:

    This might mean that Haswell motherboards and/or processors might be in limited supply until the updated hardware is available, probably in early August or somewhat later. I think that it's best to wait for hardware updates that fix the usb 3.0 problem.
    Damn.. now I need to re-think my computer purchase :/

    If you want to overclock the cpu, you need to buy a K-model cpu, such as 3570K or 3770K for Ivy Bridge or 4570K or 4770K for Haswell. You can't do a full cpu overclock with the non-K models. For the best gaming performance, you want to overclock the cpu, memory and video card(s). Haswell performance will be similar to Ivy Bridge performance, but Haswell's built-in support for additional Intel sata3 and usb 3.0 ports is a huge improvement and means that you won't have issues with the Ivy Bridge systems that need to use sata3 or usb 3.0 controllers from Marvel, ASMedia or others which often have "issues."

    It looks like some B75 motherboards support SLI and/or CrossfireX, but the B75 has fewer pci-e lanes for video card support which means that the video cards will have worse performance due to lower bandwidth with the reduced number of pci-e lanes. Setting up two video cards for SLI is easy, and the "fun" comes when you overclock the video cards and perform the needed stress tests to ensure that your overclock is stable. I taught myself video card overclocking with my MSI N460GTX Hawk video cards by reading overclocking tutorials on the web. Check out the MSI overclocking thread in my forum signature for an idea of how I did and what was involved.

    You won't need to overclock your cpu or video cards to get decent performance, but if you do, you well get much better gaming performance. From the reviews that I've read, SLI gaming performance will improve by ~40 - 100% in different games. You can start out with a single video card and see how well your new system performs. I bought my second video card about 6 months after the first card when I found an excellent mail-in rebate. Using rebates, I saved about $40 on each of my video cards. Most mail in rebates are only valid for one video card at a time and you usually have to wait for a new rebate offer to buy the second card at a later time.
    I am a little intrigued by OCing but then I'm just afraid I'll screw something over considering how little I know about computers. Don't have a spare computer so I want to be a little more careful with it. But that's not to say I won't try it in the future!

    Check out http://forums.tweaktown.com/storage-...sd-budget.html for some ssd recommendations. The Samsung Magician software is very easy to use when setting up their ssd's. My preference is for the 128GB or 256GB 840 PRO models. Do not buy their less expensive 120GB 840 standard model that uses TLC Nand memory.

    Z77 is for Ivy Bridge and Z87 is for Haswell.
    Gaming performance is like racing; how fast are you willing to spend.
    What do you think about a 64GB SSD? I am planning to just put my OS on there and leave the remaining space empty/for utility programs like Chrome, iTunes etc. Other programs and files will be on my HDD since there's a whole lot more space there.

  3. #13
    profJim's Avatar
    profJim is online now Chief Munchkin + moderator
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    Default Re: Need help building a new gaming computer

    • I haven't heard anything about limited supply so this should be a non-issue.

    • The usb problem happens with some usb 3.0 flash drives that don't work properly when your Haswell system wakes from sleep. Apparently there is no data loss and it sounds like all you need to do is to use windows Safely Remove feature on the flash drive and then reconnect it to your system. This is a minor issue that I'd rather not deal with but I'd probably buy my system today if I found a great deal.

    • Don't buy a 64GB ssd no matter how good the price is, this size is way too small and performance will deteriorate noticeably when the ssd approaches approximately 70% - 80% full. While the initial windows install is less than 30GB, the free space on the ssd will mysteriously shrink over time. Buy a good quality 128GB or 256GB ssd and you won't run out of space in the 3 - 5 years that you'll keep your ssd. Depending on how you use your system, the size of your boot drive will grow over time. My 60GB original ssd lasted almost two years before I needed to replace it with a 128GB model. I have a 640GB hard drive for all my files, photos, music, etc. SSD performance and life are noticeably better when you have a larger over provisioning (unused) space. I have 40GB of O/P space on my ssd.

    • Just because you buy a cpu that can be overclocked, you don't have to overclock it right away. You should learn how to overclock from the web and read overclocking threads to learn from the mistakes that others make. Even if your system locks up solid, there are ways to easily reset your system back to it's original settings. You can't just give it full throttle when you're trying to get a stable overclock. We can help you when you're ready.
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
    P35-DS4 [rev: 2.0] ~ Bios: F14
    4x2GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 1094MHz @5-5-5-15
    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
    Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (boot)
    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
    Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
    HT|Omega Striker 7.1 sound card ~~ Asus VH242H monitor [1920x1080] ~~ Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium ~~ CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD U.P.S
    .


  4. #14
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Need help building a new gaming computer

    Quote Originally Posted by profJim View Post
    • I haven't heard anything about limited supply so this should be a non-issue.
    • The usb problem happens with some usb 3.0 flash drives that don't work properly when your Haswell system wakes from sleep. Apparently there is no data loss and it sounds like all you need to do is to use windows Safely Remove feature on the flash drive and then reconnect it to your system. This is a minor issue that I'd rather not deal with but I'd probably buy my system today if I found a great deal.
    Yeah.. I think I'll wait a little while for the updated version. I get annoyed by minor issues like that easily lol.
    Don't buy a 64GB ssd no matter how good the price is, this size is way too small and performance will deteriorate noticeably when the ssd approaches approximately 70% - 80% full. While the initial windows install is less than 30GB, the free space on the ssd will mysteriously shrink over time. Buy a good quality 128GB or 256GB ssd and you won't run out of space in the 3 - 5 years that you'll keep your ssd. Depending on how you use your system, the size of your boot drive will grow over time. My 60GB original ssd lasted almost two years before I needed to replace it with a 128GB model. I have a 640GB hard drive for all my files, photos, music, etc. SSD performance and life are noticeably better when you have a larger over provisioning (unused) space. I have 40GB of O/P space on my ssd.
    Hmm okay I'll try to look out for a 128GB SSD. I don't usually install lots of stuff on my computers besides games. Which brings me to a question, if I have a SSD and a HDD, should would installing the game on the SSD have a better effect than HDD? I know installing the OS on the SSD makes it run snappier, but would the game need to be on the SSD to run snappier too? Was thinking since the game runs on the OS and the OS is on the SSD... so....
    Just because you buy a cpu that can be overclocked, you don't have to overclock it right away. You should learn how to overclock from the web and read overclocking threads to learn from the mistakes that others make. Even if your system locks up solid, there are ways to easily reset your system back to it's original settings. You can't just give it full throttle when you're trying to get a stable overclock. We can help you when you're ready.
    Haha alright I'll take up that offer then!
    Last edited by profJim; 06-13-2013 at 04:47 PM. Reason: corrected formatting errors

  5. #15
    profJim's Avatar
    profJim is online now Chief Munchkin + moderator
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    Default Re: Need help building a new gaming computer

    Installing a game on your ssd might make it load somewhat faster.
    If your game does a lot of disk reads while you are playing, you might notice an improvement in the feel of the game if it's installed on your ssd. The only way to know which is better is to test it when it is installed on your ssd versus your hard drive.

    note: I corrected the formatting errors in your last post.
    Q9650 @ 4.10GHz [9x456MHz]
    P35-DS4 [rev: 2.0] ~ Bios: F14
    4x2GB OCZ Reaper PC2-8500 1094MHz @5-5-5-15
    MSI N460GTX Hawk Talon Attack (1GB) video card <---- SLI ---->
    Seasonic SS-660XP2 80 Plus Platinum psu (660w)
    WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data)
    Samsung 840 Pro 256GB SSD (boot)
    SLI @ 16/4 works when running HyperSLI
    Cooler Master 120XL Seidon push/pull AIO cpu water cooling
    Cooler Master HAF XB computer case (RC-902XB-KKN1)
    Asus VH242H 24" monitor [1920x1080]
    MSI N460GTX Hawk (1GB) video card
    Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium
    HT|Omega Claro plus+ sound card
    CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD UPS
    E6300 (R0) @ 3.504GHz [8x438MHz] ~~ P35-DS3L [rev: 1.0] ~ Bios: F9 ~~ 4x2GB Kingston HyperX T1 PC2-8500, 876MHz @4-4-4-10
    Seasonic X650 80+ gold psu (650w) ~~ Xigmatek Balder HDT 1283 cpu cooler ~~ Cooler Master CM 690 case (RC-690-KKN1-GP)
    Samsung 830 128GB SSD MZ-7PC128B/WW (boot) ~~ WD Caviar Black WD6401AALS 640GB (data) ~~ ZM-MFC2 fan controller
    HT|Omega Striker 7.1 sound card ~~ Asus VH242H monitor [1920x1080] ~~ Logitech Z-5500 Digital 5.1 Speakers
    win7 x64 sp1 Home Premium ~~ CyberPower CP1500PFCLCD U.P.S
    .


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